Pagen, I think the answer to your question is keep it simple; trying to arrange three way swaps is just making things harder to coordinate/arrange and therefore more likely to failure. Not to mention cost, as two aircraft would need moving not one.

Additionally the fact Cosfords Comet 1 didn’t serve with the RAF is an irrelevance; it is safe and to 99.999% of the population the fact it didn’t have a military career just dosen’t matter.

You would do far better to get in contact with various museums and see who has room to take her. Can’t help thinking she would look great at Coventry next to the Viscount.

Steve

Well said planemike! There are too many people in this world who look a people with problems or who just have different values from themselves, and are instantly dismisive and/or antagonistic towards them.

You might be interested to know that bungy lauches were performed off the top of the Downs during the early 1970’s. Certainly when I witnessed it two gliders were being used a K13 and a T21 Sedburgh.

I can’t give you much more info than that, but from talking to other people present I believe at that point such launches were still conducted every couple of years…………

Does any one know of anywhere where they still cunduct bungy launches, or when the last such launches were?

Steve

It should be noted also that had the destruction of the TSR2 project been as thourgh/vindictive as many would like you to believe – then there certainly wouldn’t be two of the prototypes sitting in museums (Duxford & Cosford), or major sections such as the cockpit at Brooklands still with us…………..

I must admit I’ve always thought this would make a great TV special, perhaps for Xmas eve.

Steve

Trumper, your post is just the sort of winging that prevents historic aviation from prospering – of course they are different. But they also have a great many similarities, both being saleable heritage experiences.

Yes it is away from the public when not flying, but why no visitor’s centre like the BBMF? you can go around the Shuttleworth Collection when they aren’t flying and AACF I understand will soon have a permanent visitors centre…..

As for money it is often stated that the biggest outdoor events after football matches are airshows (I would question this, and suggest that music festivals are attended by more people). Why is this grass roots support not being enlisted? Price of a pint a week – dosen’t seem to have been a problem for Tornado, yet no one has ever even asked me would I mind supporting an aeronautical project in such a pragmatic way – and I’ve been going to displays for forty odd years!

As for ‘Everybody over the age of 50+ would have memories of steam trains.’ These same people also have aeronautical memories, and what about the under 50s? Rostered UK mainline steam ceased 1968, so it is highly unlikely that anyone under 50 has any memories of day to day stem – their experience is a pure heritage one, the fact that railway preservation has managed to engage them is a triumpth.

Also the claim that heritage aviation is ‘MUCH more specialist and therefore smaller ‘ is nonsensical. What about the tens probably hundreds of thousands of ex-national servicemen who served on them, or at least in the RAF when they were in service? Then there are the perennial claims regarding airshow attendances. And it is also worth noting that the Midland Counties catalogue always seems to have twice as many pages for aviation titles than railway books – that at the very least suggests more aeronautical books are published, thus indicating a bigger market and more enthusiats.

My experience suggests that in general railway preservationists have a can do attitude, where as many aviation enthusiasts have a can’t been done attitude.

Bruce good point re. AACF funding; however my comparison was more about the way people can get involved from volanteer pilots and ground crew, through to members of the public paying for pleasure flights. I was also under the impression that the aim is for the AACF to become self funding (via the pleasure flying revues), much like Classic Wings at Duxford, and various Tiger Moth operators, which being a commercial operations I assume at least break even.

Twin Otter, yes Tornado was late, but our loco has been ‘Two years off steaming’ since I first got involved twenty years ago! I think most railway enthusiasta know the ropes and never saw 1995 as a realistic target date, I know I didn’t.

From being a total sceptic as recently as this time last year, I now believe that the money to keep XH558 can be found. But it will require a radical shake up of the organisation, infinitely better communication and transparency and a hell of a lot more imagination and pragmatisum when it comes to fund raising!

I always find myself somewhat incredulous as to how little the historic aviation fraternity achieve when compared to the steam preservation movement.

This year’s highlight for historic aviation has been the Vulcan, and like Bruce I never really believed it could be done; whilst railway preservation’s highlight must be the emergence of the new build A1 locomotive Tornado, this project I never once doubted.

However whilst the aviation movement is desperately flinging mud at one another and arguing over finance to keep the vulcan flying for another year, Tornado stands on the brink of a glorious mainline career – both were decade-plus, multi million pound projects, both had to overcome huge regulatory, funding and technical hurdles.

So what was different?

I think the answer is in one word ‘Leadership’ not just of those people intimately immersed in the project day to day, but also of the numerous legions of (often casual) supporters needed to financially power such projects.

It is in inspiring this second group that Vulcan project has failed- miserably. As is clear from this thread, that the management are not trusted by the ordinary enthusiast. Bruce you are quite right big business does need big business men to lead it – But by todays standards the Vulcan project is not big business £6m+ over 10 years+ is a turnover £600k per annum – I know several small business men who turn over multiples of this! For much lower renumeration than allegedly paid to Dr Plemming.

Ultimately a good business man does not just balance books and generate a profit – they inspire both staff and customers and in so doing inflate the value of that all important bottom line. That is the real difference between success, failure and mediocrity – Leadership.

No matter how much the Vulcan project has been from technical triumpth, it has been a PR and arguably financial disaster. To only get one of three aspects of this ‘business’ right is lamentable.

Tornado by contrast has been a complete triumpth. Finance has been generated from huge numbers of enthusiasts donating at the rate of £1.25, a ‘pint a week’ (wish I could get a pint for that!), progress has been visiably and regularly communicated – thus inspiring more supporters, there has been no infiighting or accusations of finacial impropriety. The result more new build projects ranging from a Clan to a Patriot are picking up steam (if you will pardon the pun). Most will of course succeed because railway preservation has always had the confidence and now track record to do so.

Will we see another high profile large aircraft restored to flight?

Well I wouldn’t hold my breath…………….

Of course there are two sides to every story………………..

It is easy to dismiss such expenditure as ‘obscene’ as indeed it is on some levels. However the arts are and always have been an integral part of any civilised society, which almost every citizen enjoys at some point during the year; be this a visit to a theatre or gallery, rock concerts, painting themselves, amateur dramatics, reading a novel or simply watching a film on television or cinema.

It is also worth noting that most dictators at some point attempt to ban/control the work of various artists – which really shows the influence that art has over society.

If you look at the bottom of the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4732056.stm

You will see that whilst The National Gallery, Tate Modern , V&A, British Museum, National Gallery and Tate Britain all feature with over a million visitors, NO purely aeronautical attraction is on the list, indeed the only attraction with an aeronautical content is the Science Museum. To this you might add the two castles listed as having a ‘military link.’ The simple conclusion is that compared to the arts, aviation and indeed military history as a whole is a fringe interest.

This is born out by looking around the office where I work (50+ people), half the staff are female and have zero interest in aeronautics, but they do organise collective trips to the theatre etc. Of the men there a far more motorcycle enthusiasts, with cars and football running them a close second. Indeed I am the only person here with more than a passing interest in aircraft, and have to admit to having gone to the theatre with the ladies, as have most of the other chaps in the office at various times.

I would suggest that in a democracy money should be spent where the majority will benefit from or enjoy the expenditure.

Of course that is not a justification of this particular case.

So let us look at the facts – and start by reading the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7584902.stm

The first thing one should notice is that this is an appeal for funding; as ever the bulk of this will not come from public money but sources such as national art funds, private individuals and companies. Remember John Paul Getty?

Next the market value of this painting is not £100m but closer to £300m, which would be a good investment in anyone’s book. The value of these paintings also shows how people value art in comparison to say a Spitfire. In addition as part of this package, a number of other notable works will remain in this country’s public galleries.
Finally even if the half the large number of visitors to this country’s major art institutions were foreign tourists and not Brits, it would only illustrate how important such attractions are to this country’s tourist industry. And if they are that important in that way then investing in them is essential.

Ultimately we have to admit that we are aficionados of a fringe interest and that often in life we can not understand other people’s enthusiasms. I can’t understand how anyone could enjoy risking their neck on a motorbike, or why to my girlfriend a £125 designer blouse is superior to one that looks the same in Matalan.

The bottom line though is that if we want others to respect our quirks, we should respect other peoples view on life and that to a great many people these paintings are extremely important. Any other approach smacks of pig ignorance, bigotry or worse.

Steve.