I would add few fighters could afford to chase a F-22 at Supersonic Speed before “bingo” fuel………….Clearly, “Super Cruise” is a big tactical advantage!

If it came to this, I’m pretty sure a MICA IR would sort any “advantage” out. 🙂

I think the TF30 was problematic primarily in the F-14.

Your last sentence is funny. It is definitively a turbofan, and it definitely means better performance in all relevant categories. The Tornado ended up as downsized F-111.

It had its fair share of troubles in the F-111 too.

Yes, my last sentence, maybe I didn’t explain/write it very well. I was making the point that a fully working system, that it delivers the required performance goals (such as a TSR-2 turbojet (I think!)) would/could be a better option than tempermental, not fully working/understood system (such as in the F-111 engine). Something that works well most of the time usually is better than something that works better some of the time.

And I still say only in some D’s and the F model was the intake/engine system finally deserving for the jet.

I think in terms of operational capability the F-111 clearly put the TSR.2 in second place. Primary reason: the engine.

I thought that was the main floor of the F-111, only until the F variant (and some D) was the engine acceptable. The numerous problems it caused hampered the F-111 from the start, and its cousin wasn’t great in the F-14A either. Whilst maybe being a turbofan and basically a “first”, doesn’t mean it was better or more right for the situation.

Tornado as a step up from the Canberra I get, but compared to the Buccaneer I don’t see it being that great a leap forward.

The Bucc is a cracking plane for low level bombing/interdiction, “but it ant no Tornado.”

The Tornado really does have an advantage in any combat/performance variable I can think of. (Bar range, A clean Bucc can outstrip a clean Tornado, but add tanks and the usual AtA refuelling and thats gone)

For example; If we talk about the GR.1 version here, as it was the immediate successor to the Bucc.

As far as avionics goes the Bucc cannot compete. The TFR/navigation/target/weapons systems were all superior to the Buccs. The main advantage these gave was the Tornados ability to fly less than 100 ft through any terrain in any weather and drop a wide variety or ordinance with absolute precision. Combat loads gave no limits on the pilot perception of performance, effectively early care free handelling systems were employed in the avionics package.

The cockpit in the Tornado was a much nicer enviroment, far more user friendly and more importantly alot more comfortable when hugging the terrain for hours at a time. The Bucc was noted for its ability to do this resonably well due to its weight/wing loading, but the Tornado was in another league.

The survivability was a leap forward again for the Tornado. Very sophisicated ECM’s were employed not only on pylons but also throughout the aircraft. Also counting to this was the flight computer’s ability to detect various “danger zones” and to work out specific routes to deter from them, if they hadnt been accounted for before the mission.

Weapon variation was greater, and specialist weapons such as JP233’S could be used.

Sheer physical performance is better such as max speeds at all altitude, turning, climb and acceleration which are all handy in various ways.

Mainly it was a true multirole aircraft that did the tasks just about better than any competitor, and for the main just simply better.

It gave the RAF a very good chance of striking targets in Easern Europe, if a war ever did kick of, without expecting huge losses.

The exact combo that you are mentionning was tested during a trial there…. radar emissions from several hundreds of nautical miles if I remeber well.

Here are some extracts from a greek report :

Thanks for the info/links 🙂 I think it is a very capable system tha has not been full explored yet.

All this talk about an IR version of the Meteor is confusing me. Surely it has a massive excess of range compared to the actual passive detection system’s range such as PIRATE or the Rafales OSF? (Max ranging I think is ~ 60-70 miles on huge heat sources). Thats why MICA IR is so perfect with this role, the range and performance of the weapon is in the league of the identification/tracking system.

For example theres no point having a EM meteor when your radar range is small, say ~30 Nm, as the missile is far more capable than that. Or am I missing something here :confused:

A-10, simply hideous!

I dont think anything really beats the classic Dassault delta, especially 3rd gen series such as the III/IV/V, in NMF during the 60’s, just wonderful aircraft to look at. The rest from that gen such as Draken/F-104/Lightning are all not hard on the eyes too.

The F-111 in its 3.5/4th gen? spot has to be mentioned, it still looks “modern” today!