Would it be worth it though? Aero drag = diminishing returns to increased initial power. Linear power development seems preferable beyond a specific speed, especially for long range AAMs.

Yes I agree totally for long range AAM’s.

I did find this;

“To improve range ASRAAM features a low drag design, only tail fins are provided for control purposes. The weapons propulsion is provided by a new 6″ low signature dual-burn high impulse solid rocket motor based on a novel strip-steel laminate design. Compared to the AIM-9’s 4″ motor this new design improves both the instantaneous acceleration and maximum cruise velocity”

from; http://typhoon.starstreak.net/common/AA/asraam.html

I think having a huge specific impulse may overcome any results from less impulse but longer burning motors, but only within short ranges <10 miles I guess.

The max velocity of ASRAAM is a whole mach number greater than most other WVR missles, i.e 3.5 oppsosed to ~ 2.5. Also this much high specific impulse and initial acceleration seems to give greater range, albeit though not enough “grunt” later in the flight to chase targets I would think.

I have had some experience with High powered model rockets, using the same principles as these missiles, and have always found/calculated that for small rockets very high specific impulses give higher mach numbers, height (range in missiles case) and acceleration; and has overcome most negatie effects with the Vel vs drag problem.

Guess other maufactures believe a slower and “longer lasting” missile would be the better choice for WVR due to their “end game” ability much like meteor.

Typical nonsense. The range of an AAM is related to the burn-time of a motor. Not a larger motor but a higher fuel-load will make the difference. 😎

Couldn’t you accelerate the missile greatly initially, which as far as I know is the main point of ASRAAM. Changing it into a guided bullit in some respect.

Re the tornados;

The F3 has no future really anymore, the cost of operating such a specialised jet when the replacement EF is better than it in nearly every single way and brings a host of other abilities. Its last job now really is just serve until the RAF has enough EFs on the front line.

The IDS/GR4 has a much better future. The RAF’s and the the GAF’s (not tooo sure on the Italian’s jets) have all been upgraded prgressively to bring in new features adapting them to todays, and for the recent future’s operational requirements such as better CAS abilities etc… The fact that it is still the best low level interdictor in the world helps its case, however you could argue the F-35 with stealth will eliminate the point of low level duties.
Or even looking more into the future UAV’s will be able to replace the IDS version in the interdictor role, the road Germany is taking.

You go first with the non TVC equipped aircraft turn rate figures :diablo:

Seriously though, it is well known that TVC is very usefull for high alt high speed turning on the Raptor, hence my picking up on the statement by ‘Typhoon1’ as incorrect where he stated “firstly you have to assume its medium to low subsonic speeds as it wont have much effect on turn rate beyond that”

Yes, this “clueless idiot” will say again. TVC has very, little effect on supersonic turnrates compared to aerodynamic variables. Maybe this clueless idiot has, shall we say a mild amount of experience in the field 😉

Fed up with talking to complete muppets now

Interesting. The case would be much more convincing though if there already was a Typhoon flying with it. Really looking forward to a twin-TVC-nozzled Typhoon prototype though.

It would be very interesting, but why would India but not all the other operating nations find a need for it? (vs cost of course)

Well, you have to provide data that would support the F-35 is not as agile in a WVR Fight as the aircraft you listed……………thus far I’ve seen nothing to support such a claim.

oh no! You’ve got me there, guess that means the F-35 is the best physical performance platform.

honestly Scooter……

Please, if you want to keep a serious tone on this thread, don’t compare the F 22 with EFor Rafale.

Guess you think aswell in a WVR fight of either a EF/rafale with HMS and IRS-T/MICA is no match for the raptor with just the Aim-9. True we shouldnt compare.