typhoon1F-22 Strengths-
Better Radar
Better ESM
Better Raw performance(speed/maneuvering/operating altitude/etc…)
Larger internal AAM load
Larger volume of airspace that can be controlled
Typhoon ticks the box of 4 out of those (larger AtA load opposed to internal), eventually adding AESA then it ticks all five as the F-22.
F-35 Strengths
Better A/G load
Better A/G avionics
DAS/EOTS
JHMCS/AIM-9X
Less expensive
The typhoon ticks the box for at least 4 of those.
Hmm, now which seems the most cost vs performance effective plane there 😀 Yes, the EF.
typhoon1No, it is NOT small. If it weren’t no aircraft designer would have EVER bothered with internal payload capabilities.
Again, he DID NOT say the F-35 flies like a F-16 but like a F-22.
In terms of aerodynamic performance, the F-35 is an excellent machine, Beesley said. Having previously been only the second man ever to have flown the F-22 Raptor, Beesley became the first pilot ever to fly the F-35 in late 2006. As such, Beesley is intimately familiar with both programs. According to Beesley, the four current test pilots for F-35 have been most impressed by the aircraft’s thrust and acceleration. In the subsonic flight regime, the F-35 very nearly matches the performance of its’ larger, more powerful cousin, the F-22 Raptor, Beesley explained. The “subsonic acceleration is about as good as a clean Block 50 F-16 or a Raptor– which is about as good as you can get.” Beesley said. The aircraft flies in “large measure like the F-22, but it’s smaller, and stiffer” than the Raptor however, Beesley explained, adding that the aircraft handles superbly. The reason for the similar flight characteristics, explained the test pilot, is because the man who designed the flight control laws for the Raptor, is also the same man who is responsible for the flight control software for the F-35. As Beesley explains, the flight control laws of modern fighters determine to large extent the flight characteristics of a given aircraft. Beesley said that the aircraft is so stable and so comfortable that the test pilots find themselves inadvertently drifting too close to their wingmen in formation.
No I have not. I have seen 4 AMRAAM & 2 ASRAAMs but NO external tanks.
And guess what, the F-35 can carry as much fuel INTERNALLY as a Typhoon can with three external tanks. 🙂
Because you are a religious zealot & the Typhoon is your god – or at least you ARE acting like one…
Yes they would, they would be laughing at you.
Cannot fault you on any of your points, brilliant post, exceptional data and arguments, as always, being demonstrated.
“applause”
over and out……:(
typhoon1The skyflash missile was much better than the sparrow, the advantage the eagle had over the Tornado was sheer “interceptor” performance, though the F3 is certainly no slouch as often thought.
typhoon1So anyway. Like I said, care to back up what you said with a quote? I for one am getting tired of this Internet legend about the Typhoon and its supposed supercruise ability.
Having spoken to Typhoon pilots my friend and asking the question can it SC in QRA fit, the answer coming back; yes; Or having had the pleasure of meeting a quite, unnamed, pleasant senior Euroflighter chap at Farnborough 2006 and asking the same various questions.
Thats all the evidence I need,
Think/dream/wish what you want pal.
Biggest bunch of “STAR49”-esque people I have seen yet.
Well done.
typhoon1What ARE you smoking? Or drinking, or what ever it is you are doing to cause you to lapse into some kind of dream state where the laws of physics no longer apply.
I can see I am dealing with very clever person here :rolleyes:. In the strict sence, of course there will be a small penalty in weight/drag with the stores, however the difference of such a load is very small. Such that it allows the Typhoon to still SC at mach 1.3 etc…
No it does not.
It DOESN’T say the F-35 behaves like a clean F-16 Block 50, it says it behaves like a F-22 (except in the post-stall flight regime) – no big leap there given the similar overall design & flight software….
:mad:No! how can you not comprehend this. The statement exclaiming it flies like an F-22 and F-16 is extremely, extremely vague! It can mean alot!. You are just simply ignoring even LM have exclaimed for the last 10 years it will not be a dog fighter, where as Eurofighter have designed the fighter to be the most agile in the world. Franky arguing that point is moronic.
I GUARANTEE that a Typhoon with such a load (which would require 3 FULL external tanks) could not hope to do the same…..
With all you “guaranteeing” knowledge and all that…..I assume you have seen EF going vertical straight after takeoff with 4 amraam, 4 asraam, and 3 tanks? I think not.
I dont know why I got into this thread, there is simply no point, with such biased people as you around. Frankly the F-35 testpilots would be laughing 😀 at this thread so far.
typhoon1So, you have a source that supports the Typhoon in Air Superiority Configuration (i.e. 6-AAM’s & 1-Exteranl Fuel Tank) that is better than a Block 50 F-16 clean…………As I would enjoy reading it.:D
There are plenty around, not always on the internet unfortunatley. For example go read about the dact exercises that took place betweeen AMI F-16’s and typhoons.Have you ever seen a typhoon Scooter?, I really doubt you have as you seem to think its some sort of average 4th gen performance airframe and I ASSURE you it is nothing of the sort.
typhoon1No, the unit cost of the Typhonn is HIGHER than it is for the F-35.
The only advantage the Typhoon has is CLEAN flight performance.
To try and give you one example. How come a typhoon with a sinlge tank, 4 amraam, 2 asraam can SC up to mach 1.3 and a clean F-35 appreantly cannot. (the typhoon is not clean here btw :rolleyes:)
typhoon1They have already been countered.
It is complete & utter BS.
No matter how you want to try & spin it, the F-35 will without a doubt enjoy a significantly better kill-loss ration over any significant opponent/threat then the Typhoon could ever hope to.
NO, you did not counter it, you denied the points that were made, and made some more wild, unsupported, fanboy claims. Again.
typhoon1A CLEAN Typhoon with say 5,000-6,000 lbs of internal fuel certainly has a performance advantage over a F-35 with say 9,000-10,000 lbs of internal fuel [about a half load for each] BUT load a Typhoon & a F-35 with a similar COMBAT LOAD & the performance advantage (what ever little remains) is all but irrelivant.
😀 how do you know, you are simply just second guessing! We knowthe performance of the typhoon is massively superior to F-16/15/18’s, and as the F-35 has been likened to the F-16, we can second guess the typhoon will have a superior performance advantage. True, all we can do is second guess at the moment, but there is a hell of alot of evidence going in the typhoons favour, a lot more than the F-35.
typhoon1This has been widely publicized…………
Sorry, doesn’t sound like a aircraft that a Typhoon equipped with one External Fuel Tank, 4-AMRAAM’s and 2-Sidewinders. Is going to easily out maneuver in a WVR fight to me…………..of course than does even touch my other points regarding Situational Awareness, Sensor Fusion, Stealth, and BVR Engagements……….
Scooter, combine the typhoon with HMS, HOBS missiles and it most certainly will. The load of 4 amraam, 2 asraam, and a centre fuel tank does nothing to the typhoons performance as it is so powerful initially, seriously it does not noticeably effect anything. Supersonic speeds is where the EF is believed to dominate, and reading the article saying the F-35 at high subsonic behaves like a clean F-16 block 50, well then that again supports my argument.
typhoon1Yet, how are you making the reverse argument that XXXXX is better than the F-35???? See it works both ways……………That said, I didn’t see JackNicko posting……….I see your point. Yet, all you have to do is ask how I come to that conclusion. As we all don’t go into depth on every issue.
Scooter, I dont understand this post :confused:
typhoon1The point I was trying to make………..is you have to compare a typical cap Typhoon. (i.e. 4-AMRAAM’s, 2-ASRAAM’s and a single External Tank) to a clean F-16 Blk 50/60 and the Raptor. Do you still believe the Typhoon could match either???
Yes, indefintely the first, the second I don’t know, nor do you! And another point, using the phrase the F-35 is liked to a clean F-16, and yet is similar to the F-22, really needs some balls. How an earth can you take substancial claims from that, if it was like the F-22, ALOT of views/opinions from many people would be different. Its just a huge generalisation to show it isnt a flying brick as the unknowing often think.
typhoon1Sorry, you started the war of words and I have no doubt that I somehow stuck my foot in my mouth or hit a raw nerve. If, I did so I apologize and that clearly wasn’t my intent. Yet, I think you may have over reacted. At least that is my take…………Regardless, you seem to think my opinion matters little. Because I can’t support it with facts. At least not to your satifaction. Yet, respectfully I don’t see were you have anymore “facts” than I have??? Yet, somehow you can draw the conculsion the Typhoon is somehow better than the F-35???? Sorry, I believe that is what they call a “oxymoron” or calling the kettle black as they say…………..With respect if I can’t make a judgement on the F-35 nor can you.
The whole reason I made the my post in the thread is when JackNicko made this post:
Post #21
he was answered with nothing, nothing but dribble sentences and opimistic opinions that were spoken as if they were Gods truth. Go read the post and understand some “facts” or at least common knowledge he (and I) was referring to.
I dont want to start a flame war, argument etc.. just want you to notice that evidence was provided to show in many aspects the typhoon probably is better than the F-35, and no evidence has been shown otherwise. Mainly because there is not any, going round full circle, brings us back to you not being able to make such claims that the F-35 is better in xxxxx.
typhoon1Well, sounds like you are the one doing a lot of speculating. As on one hand I have no facts. Yet, you come to the conclusion the Typhoon can accelerate better, climb better, and turn better than a F-35? I wonder were you got that classified data from? Can the Typhoon with 6-AAM’s and one external Tank …………….Accelerate Better, Climb Better, and Turn Better. Than a clean blk 50/60 F-16 Viper or F-22 Raptor??? Sounds like you are making that claim???
Sorry, but you are accusing me of doing the very same thing you are doing………..speculating. With your “facts” being no more or no less reliable than mine.
From the general Typhoon in service/Eurofighter programme I have been following for the last 10 years, I will make a safe bet it does. And just because you have not read/seen what I have, doesnt make it false im afraid. For example, one point, its initial climb rate is often quoted at 65,000ft/min, the F-16’s 50,000, and using the 10% stores reduction “rule” you mentioned then it would still be in favour for the typhoon. Simply in real life having seen a typhoon taking off, then going up vertically with 4 amraam, 2 asraams, 3tanks in a QRA fit, and having seen F-16’s not do the same; it simply is not fare to compare them. And Im not eve trying to make that point.
typhoon1Well, I am not going to get into a war of words. As I have stated over and over again this is not personal. This is a forum and I have a right like everybody else to express a opinion and to specutale or even draw conclusions. Clearly, every body here does the same thing with every single post. As for what “we” don’t know. If, we went by facts alone. We would hardly be able to debate anything. Let’s be honest what do we really know for a fact about the performance of the F-22??? Hey, many here debate the capablities of the PAK-FA and J-XX? Yet, we don’t even know what they look like let alone any idea of there true capablities……
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No, lets not:cool: True post! However, I wouldnt go around saying black is white because its my opinion. There has to be some evidence to what you say.
As for twin vs single I am speculating from past history. What are you doing? Stating in very general terms that the F-35 is more complex……….Yes, of course……Yet, that doesn’t neccessarily “translate” into the F-35 more expensive to operate. As a matter of fact one of the major concept behind the F-35 was to lower the cost of operating and maintaining it vs current types. Regardless, the point was I am speculating by coming to conclusion what I know and what I believe will be the case. So, are you and everybody else…….
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The whole point of the post was to highlight “we just don’t know” For every piece of specualtion you throw out, you will get one straight back. The twin engined idea is commendable, but the typhoon has proved to be brilliant regards running cost/maintainablilty etc.and that is a hard fact..Most twin engined planes have been more expensive because they have been larger/heavier is more appropiate and more complex. But when you have two airframes, roughly the same size/weight with one being more physically complex than the other it may slip away from the general trend.
Like I said you make your case and I’ll make mine…………..not a hard concept here. You don’t have to except my opinion and I don’t have to except yours. While, the rest can agree or disagree according to there own beliefs………….:rolleyes:
Scooter, you are better than this!
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