That is rather a wordy way of saying you don’t have a source isn’t it?

Nope, it means how it reads.

So at the first sign of a threat the Eurofighter drops its stores, wasting them, and failing in its mission….

An F-35 in that same scenario, and with the benefit of its stealth and huge kinematic superiority over a strike configured 4th generation aircraft would likely simply avoid the threat and see its mission through to completion.

Could a Typhoon get to M1.4 while carrying that load? Perhaps… but it would be a very strange scenario that would see it attempt to do so.

Check: BVR shot kinematics.

How likely do you think a sortie would be planned with knowledge that the jets may be attacked AND then not give additional support? escort whatever…

The whole point behind an aircraft having to drop its stores is a total surprise threat.

Again, would an F-35 (full int load) keep the extra weight when a surprise hostile threat emerges? God knows, but the planned idea is that it would not encounter such a threat and if there was a probability, additional support in whatever form would be given.

BTW here I’m not trying to compare ground attack, The F-35 has that sowed up.

Why don’t you share with us your source stating the load an F-35 can carry while pulling 9 Gs. (The speed and altitude requirement is true of all aircraft.)

hoppy, I give up. You lack common sense, realisation of modest sarcasm and a strong ability to completely miss a point.

Just so much wrong, or ‘honest confusion’ in one place. I just wanted to see how small a piece of bait could catch a giant tuna like you.

…and you know this how?

It takes only a small amount of intelligence to understand the context of his speaking, and understand the different permutations of conclusion. I will explain it to you though.

As stated,

CHAIR: Let the Air Vice Marshal finish his answer, then proceed.

Air Vice Marshal Osley : If we compare those two, the legacy aeroplane with fuel tanks and weapons on it, if we take a fourth generation fighter, typically an F16 or an F18, in that configuration it would take substantially longer than 63.9 seconds. If you took a 4½ generation aircraft it actually could not accelerate to supersonic in any time over that 0.8 to 1.2 range with a combat configuration of external tanks and weapons. The point I made originally was that we need to talk apples and apples between legacy fighters and the F35 on manoeuvrability and performance capabilities.

Well of course NO highly loaded typhoon/rafale could go supersonic with this, additional weapon parameter limitations.

The F-35 can, though the time to do this is not mentioned, and hence fuel consumption may put a full stop to this regardless, never mind maintaining above mach flight.

The fact it can do it does not mean it adds value. Why burn a **** load more fuel, increase IR sig and reduce manoeuvring capability for such a small increment in flight velocity? Not much.

Then the argument of a threat (Note, not typhoon vs F-35).

Typhoon just drops the stores and is able to use the much higher kinematic performance available to it. Say the F-35 does not, it’s performance is even poorer than usual and in all likelihood getting rid of a few $100k of internal stores is needed to give the F-35 a slight increase in ability and prevent the loss of pilot and $mils of the jet. The scenario I am describing is uber simplistic and pretty much fictional with all the over support available, however it is a case that the typhoon just drops the stores and then it has far better kinematic performance than the F-35.

Now, if you can show me the F-35 can usefully go through the barrier and obtain M1.3+, with full internal load, without it compromising critical fuel levels and make it into a meaningful advantage I will retract my argument.

And finally when he states no transonic performance with external tanks and weapons, typhoons blast past M1.4+ with 2 tanks and 8 ata missiles. So you have to ASSUME he is talking about heavy atg loads with restrictive flight parameters.

Simple.

[QUOTE=FBW;2094533]Someone should inform the Australian parliament that the Vice Air Marshal lied in front of a committee for the quote is from him, not mine (if you had read the link). First, the key is similarly configured, take that for what it is worth. I rather agree with you that there are few aircraft that would be able to match a Typhoon in trans-sonic acceleration when carrying four semi-recessed missiles.

I did read it, he didn’t lie. He chose his words wisely (ambiguously) that could fool someone not very clued up on differing sortie profiles. His statement is reference to full atg loads, i.e. full gas bags, 4-6 lgb’s/smart bombs and the ata fit. There no aircraft with MAX.external weapons can go supersonic (well there are a few) where as the F-35 technically can, kudos F-35 it would seem. The question is, for what use? As I said, any danger and the stores are dropped. An F-35 ingress at (1.0-1.2)M gives little advantage vs .8-.9M. What’s the point of burning tons of fuel to stay in transonic drag hump, especially fully loaded god only knows how long the F-35 would actually take to get there. He just chose his words wisely.

I agree with what you say about DACT. My point is really stressing, I think the only force structure to allow ‘fully exploited weapons potential’ would be the UK armed forces between the F-35 and typhoon, determining real vulnerabilities of both aircraft etc…No ‘sensitive’ information can really be given away when its in the same force. Multi-national, as we all know, exercises are a different matter all together regarding actual capability demonstrated. However IF the typhoon starts defeating the F-35 in various circumstances, thats gonna be one hell of a marketing point for Eurofighter to have. The question here is IF weaknesses were found in the F-35, it’s also not in the UK’s interest to start telling everyone and anyone where the F-35 is most vulnerable. Unique set of circumstances present within the UK regarding the F-35.

If you took a 4½ generation aircraft it actually could not accelerate to supersonic in any time over that 0.8 to 1.2 range with a combat configuration of external tanks and weapons

A fully bombed up rafale/typhoon would never need to go >.9M. The stores would we ditched. The F-35 pilot could keep his own if he wanted, >.8M performance would just be ****er than usual and any ‘engagment’ or a simple bank would have the F-35’s G-limit between 1-2.

In AtA configs with tanks, well documented (go and educate yourself if needed, not from marketing brochures but words spoken form pilot’s mouths) rafale and typhoon toast the F-35, significantly w.r.t typhoon. Typhoon can SC, for a useful period, >1.25M, 6-8 AAM, 2 Tanks. Again I will not waste my time finding common knowledge for users.

Lets all wait till the RAF and RN start doing some DACT. Should be quite a time when REAL F-35 performance can be evaluated.

As a point. I think the compromise of the F-35B is, with all the constraints outside of the technically feasible at present, an aircraft with fantastic potential.

F-35C raises questions, USN will need to spread its risk there.

The USAF and all the other customers are the biggest losers here-F-35A. They wanted one thing and and all the evidence points to that they’re gonna be getting something different. Not necessarily bad different, but not what was ideally asked for, promoted and guaranteed.

The power of marketing.

Not in a million years will the UK quit trident. Anyone who proposes that needs a serious reality check.

Scotland has a fortunate postion, if their ‘independence’ actually got anywhere, any real territorial threat to Scotland is a threat to England, nuclear or otherwise.

You are welcome. Pictures were taken at Decimomannu yesterday 27th of November. Now BAE and other sources have released further images and a press release: http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_163539/typhoon-flight-tests-with-storm-shadow-missile-started

With Stormshadow’s integration beginning, is there any emphasis on conformal tanks yet?

I’m not clued in on range/tank capacities with stormshadow, but as of now, if only the central tank may be used, surely the typhoon in this role is not competitive?

To be ‘attractive’, true penetration range must be a factor. Then again, the middle east is a small place when you have a decent standoff capability within the missile itself.