French Rafale should have had some BFM engagements and DACT exercises with the Eurofighters from RAF, ItAF, and GAF since 2006. However, the results of these BFM / DACT are never reported publically.

I think these endless and meaningless argues over the topic of “Rafale versus Eurofighter, who is the better one?? ” should be paused, until somebody could offer the information for the precise results of BFM engagements and DACT exercises mentioned above one day.

True. The problem is they might be restrictive exercises, as to not to reveal aspects of certain functions to each other. As soon as a weakness is found in either design Eurofighter/Dassault would never shut up about it. So it would be a very risky thing to do.

Can anyone give a realistic date to when it will maiden?

Sukhoi sometimes make optimistic claims shall we say……..

PAK-FA’s 3D-TVC nozzle developed by Salyut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Lgklyni4w

hmm, not the stealthiest design. Both RS and IRS. Assuming they will just be mounted as shown in the depicted pictures.

Compare it to the -22’s or -35’s unique shapes.

an article

Seems like Dassault are very serious about this competition then.

I wonder if Eurofighter go “all out” as Dassault have.

NO. At best it’s Rafale and Typhoon M 1.3 without tanks.

Sorry that does not make sense. The EF can already SC with a tank, 4 amraam, 2 sraam at 1.3. And you say removing this load will give no extra speed?:( Same with the Rafale, In the right conditions it can SC at 1.2, remove the stores and it can only get an extra 0.1 mach?

I think we are grossly simplifying things here.

Quote:
Climb to 40k ft in 90 sec with 4 x ASRAAM + 4 x AMRAAM + 2 x 1000 l tanks (according RAF Typhoon pilot)

I doubt VEREY much that these aircraft will T-O with TWO external tanks and achieve this, most likely ONE 1000 l supersonic tank onthe centerline pylon.

Watch this at 3:20; http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=brceEo1CkcQ and note the load.

Again you could pic a million holes in it if you want, but it sure is impressive and gives a indication the EF can do the sort of time to climb results stated.
Having seen two Typhoons, in full QRA fit, blast off on departures day at RIAT (Fairford) needing less runway than anyone else, then accelerating vertically confirmed this for me……utterly astonishing climb rates.

Wish I could find a Rafale clip showing the same……anyone?…

Thrust is not necessarily an indicator for noise. Even more nasty are frequencies. The really most ugly sounding plane I ever heared (at least of which I can remember of) is the Harrier. This beast sounds really terrible.

True about thrust, it does not always translate into noise. I’ve heard all 3 in real life however a number of times and the typhoon is the most deafening (easily louder than the F-18 they operate now), in some cases quite horribly so like the harrier in hover.

However as used in the AdA, RAF etc.. due to the power of the jets they usually operate in full military thrust in normal circumstances so the gripen with its single engine might stand out there. However hardly a major factor in the grand scheme 😀

The worst case in my experiences is the F-22 Raptor. Stealth:confused: They definitely need to work on reducing its noise, umbelievable sound 😮

Money, money, money and money.

MONEY

A point to mention is though with the Tornado and Eurofighter, most of the design was done really by BAE/British companies, more so on the previous.

EJ200, Tornado Turbo Union are both Rolls Royce remember 😉

Says who? Eurofighter reps? Paragons of virtue no doubt – see Jackonicko/John Lake here.

80% of people? People like you, with the subtle name, Typoon1?

Pilots? And how many other fighters have they flown?

Lets face it, in several competitions, where the Typhoon should have been, according to its rah rah brigade soooooooooo superior, it didnt even make top cut.

In South Korea, it was Rafale which won praise for its EW, electronics etc.
Typhoon won praise for “reliability” not SC performance.

In Brazil, we have more of the same. Again, no Typhoon is there?

In Singapore, the Singaporeans after all the BS of “Typhoon rising” went for the extremely capable F-15 SG, whose radar is undoubtedly far superior to the Captor, and probably the jet is the Typhoons equivalent in most respects and even superior in several other areas.

All in all, only a Typhoon revanchist like Jackonicko would buy into the BS of it being the best ever and 2nd to the F-22 (compare to Arthuros reply to Greg openly admitting the Rafale would have a tough fight against advanced fighters of 4+ class).

Hope you too are as down to earth as Arthuro.

Typhoon1 not subtle :confused: What gave it away 😀 80% was just a figure from my experiences which usually go like his; “Raptor is best, Raptor better at…and…Raptor better”

It does not stop me seeing the truth though. And it works both ways, pro and con the EF.

Re. the competitions, read them in depth, properly not articles published by Boeing’s F-15 division, and you will see why the typhoon was not picked. i.e it was not that it underperformed. Brazil :confused:

You may all think Jackonicko is a “typhoon BS-ter etc..” and all that jazz, however look at some of his posts (some may go back a long time), some of the sources he has provided that are not in the public domain and are spoken from Typhoon pilots, EF “reps”. It does build a strong picture of his knowledge and that he does not sprout BS, maybe exaggeration/enthusiasm sometimes but who doesn’t?