Same case for Typhoon. All sorts of ludicrous claims being made vs the Rafale about superior MMI and trying to downplay the rival. Nothing to see here, move along, move along…:rolleyes:

Lol, but thatv SC example was true pal.

Why should they supercruise there, even if they could? It’s better to stay subsonic there for longer endurance and range and in the AG role it is basically usual to stay subsonic.

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A nice pic from the Swiss evaluation. Does anyone know by how much degrees the CIU can be swept in elevation?

Forget that specific case, as yes, it could be better to do other things I agree. The problem is when you try and Market a fighter saying it has SC capability, ie SC in operational circumstances, when I does not properly is a little wrong really.

It kinda defeats the point of a military weapon, when it has to do a job when it counts and does not complete the task. But obviously its not a huge factor in the grand scheme of things really.

Re supercruise Rafale:
NO one ever stated the Rafale can’t supercruise, what has been reported from the Singapore evaluation was that the Rafale couldn’t do it under the conditions there. If you don’t like that and don’t believe it by that fact, do it you are free to believe what you want. As said no one said the Rafale can’t supercruise, but that it might have difficulties to do it in some circumstances.

Hope that this clears something up.

That is what I said, the Rafale can, as its been reported widely, but not in all circumstances And whats the point of that if it happened in operational circumstances?

Out of interest was any info reported on the SC ability in Afghanistan?

That said, with the quote of Scorpion82 included:

Mach 1,5 SC clearly seems to be a maximum upper limit

So at best it’s M 1.3 with AtoA load vs Rafale’s M 1.2 with 4 mica and 1 tank.Nic

I’m still doubtful of the rafale and supercrusie end of. Obviously it has demonstrated it can, however it must only be in certain conditions, which in combat may not occur and make the area “sketchy” as with the gripen. EF demo’d it in Singapore, Rafale not. Anyone want to have a stab why? :confused:

Typhoon can supercruise with 2×1.5 tank, 4 amraam, 4 asraam’s i.e RAF QRA fit, spoken from the words of an RAF pilot. But as we all know on here, it will not be believed until I have a video of me personally interviewing the pilot for evidence :rolleyes:

But all this nonscene about supercruise at mach 1.1, or just 1 is, in my opinion, insignificant to what already 4th gen fighters can do e.g f-15sg, Canadian F-18’s etc.., 0.1 of a mach at sea level is only 70 mph 😉 and what huge difference will that make?

Its only a noteworthy point, to be taken and marketed seriously, when it is by a substantial margin, e.g Raptor (1.7 released fig), EF (Max 1.5).

As stated before this is a Rafale thread, so a rafale question;

Mainly about the initial A demonstrator. How was its performance with the GE engines compared to the M-88? Could it supercruise etc… When seeing it at airshows it seemed brilliant at low speeds, was the production rafale of slightly lower performance? What was it performance advantages to the tantalizing project of the mirage 4000?

cheers

There is already a cheap replica of EF in shape of J-10. It just show how easily it is to create aerodynamic profile. I have yet to see F-22 look alike with internal bays, TVC, nose profile. EF is pretty ordinary design. so nothing set it apart from other 4th generation fighters. It simply dont have the internal fuel to sustain very high speeds above Mach 2 like MIG-31 nor the nose size is some dominant factor. It will become a slow bomb truck if it has to carry 6* 600kg large size BVR weopons.

You seriously do not have any, whatsoever, knowledge of aerodynamics or how “aircraft work” do you. None, nothing.

EF is pretty ordinary design

Its the most unstable aircraft in the world, is just one and only one of many that makes it not ordinary my friend.

This lack of knowledge is evident by this post (excluding he one above)

It is more likely than not they have similar performance. Just reduce the weight of MIG-25 with modern manufacturing. enhanced the engine. performance will be pretty similar despite a decade old design. J-10 is quite similar to EF.

That was the answer to my statement saying the Mig-25 and F-15 are not similar in performance.:rolleyes:

Any public source?. or it is just hearsay like EF radar. RDY is the best slot array radar in EU. Taiwan paid premium for it in early 90s but IAF is not signing for it. It has to be further developed to match MIG.
Zhuk-M3 is 200km according Phozotran designer and that radar is for MIG-29K.u can check http://www.migavia.ru website. current MIG radars have twice the detection range of earlier radars of MIG-29.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34648&highlight=tornado+F3

Star read that and any other reference material you can find of the Tornado F3 with AMRAAM (very scare I have concluded), its a very serious interceptor with a very serious quality.

All of you “non believers” about the typhoon for supersonic agility, best MMI, supercruise etc… Venky mainly I think :rolleyes:

Do you consider the Raptor to be nothing special?, because I haven’t seen any sources showing what you are asking for the typhoon, about the raptor (ie superior SS agility, MMi, and all its tricks) , yet most of the people on here believe its the best.

Otaku,

There have been no “enormous bribes used to secure sales” of Typhoon. The unsubstantiated allegations of bribery relate to Tornado, decades ago, not Typhoon today. “Only an idiot” would fail to spot the difference.

Still, don’t let the facts get in the way of your tired and silly prejudice, old chap.

Flex,

“Typhoon is a serious competitor.. and a good aircraft.”

Well spotted.

“But hardly enjoying any decisive superiority over other competitors.”

WRONG! Typhoon enjoys a decisive edge in instability/supersonic agility, in supercruise performance, in A-A radar range, and above all in MMI. Even Rafale enjoys a worthwhile edge over most of its competitors in these areas – but Typhoon is a further step ahead of Rafale in THESE areas.

Venky,

“MMI, SA, Supercruise Agility are nothing but fancy words…..”

Only to the ignorant or to the irredeemably biased.

I would agree that Typhoon has a long way to go before it becomes a True Multirole platform, but as an A-A platform it does have an edge over any other fighter out there (save the F-22) because its MMI is in a different league. That’s the judgement of the real experts in the field, I’m afraid, however much it upsets French and Russian spotters and fanboys.

Scorpion,

Typhoon pilots who are fresh from exchange tours on the F-16MLU, and who have experienced Gripen’s datalink or the Rafale’s MMI, and TPs who know F-22, JSF and Rafale would disagree with the idea that the differences between Typhoon’s MMI and the rest “aren’t that great any more.” This remains the area where Typhoon is furthest ahead of the competition.

Jackonicko re-stating performance issues about the typhoon to these people just doesn’t make a difference to their opinions, its like talking to a brick wall.
The best way is to ignore what they say (although they repeatedly shout out again and again and again….), and be confident in the fact you know you are right, you know what you are talking about and so does everyone else in the “know”.

Its just not worth the bother with these guys.