typhoon1Superior range is of course superior, unless you are a complete oaf sir. The fact that the comparison can even only be made in terms of potential value to an air force, the fact that the Su-35BM can carry a larger bomb load also speaks highly of its value.
Why is that larger range need when any operation plane would have IFR, larger capasity fule tanks, even maybe conformal in the case of typhoon/rafale.
Why does the eurofighter need to carry more bombs than what it is carrying?
What possible load can it not carry? Yes the su-35 may afford one to two more bombs, but the typhoon may be able to carry out the mission with less.
In afganistan at the moment when ever does a B-1B ever take off in its max weight, fully loaded config, it just takes what is required for the job.
typhoon1Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes me wonder. what exactly is the great advantage of the Eurocanards? Is it only to maintain a decent aerospace industry in europe?
performance wise, they hardly seem to offer anything better than upgraded flankers and eagles! one surely doubts their competitiveness when compared against a su-35 or F-15SG. And surely they are nowhere close to dealing with 5G a/c such as raptor, pakfas etc.
I think at last I can understand why the Koreans or the Singaporeans went for the Eagles. Not only will these be supported by existing infrastructure and tactics but a jump to a 5G type makes far more sense. perhaps for similar reasons, the IAF MRCA will also go to the Russkies. Why waste money on 4.5 G types when a heavily upgraded legacy jet gives you the same results and you can get a 5th gen bird soon enough. USS.
I suggest you spend a few days reading up on eurofighter material. You might get an idea that the performance is infact better than a F-15. Just a little example 46 or 47 exchange ratio for various fighter planes vs the eurofighter in a recent european exercise, I am sure more people know a hell of alot more detail on the exersise than me. It does not give the same results. Thats why in the singapore competiton, the typhoon was the only one to knock out 3 F-16’s, the typhoon was the only one to demonstate sufficient supercruise capability, not the upgraded F-15.
typhoon1Problem is EF can supercruise at what height & what load. there is no point of Supercruise at >40K feet when most of your fuel is already burnt up. Even with one external tank there is around 5800kg fuel so if ur stil carring that external tank to those heights so most probably it is already empty so there is no point.
Su-35 should only be compared to Su-27SKM weights not the twin seater Su-30.
EF uses only twice as much fuel supercrusing at height, as it does in idle on the the apron. check BBC website for recent news concerning the RAF/typhoon in america, pilots explains it on one of the videos. If you want the link ill find it for you. It is two tanks that it can acheive M1.25.
typhoon1Fantastic set of shots TJ I like them all 😎 just notice that there is only 8 reds did one go tech?
James
spectacular shots, love the mirages up close 😉
typhoon1I suggest you download this Su-35 brochure. The information there is by no means complete, but it will answer a lot of your questions.
http://www.knaapo.ru/media/eng/about/production/military/su-35/buklet_Su35_ENG.zipYou may also want to watch these Sukhoi made “propaganda” video clips about the Su-35
http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/military/su35_movie.wbphttp://www.knaapo.ru/eng/products/military/su35_movie_tech.wbp
considering someone said the fighter was rammed down the airforces throat I thought I would make the point that the pilots do infact like the plane.
Shall I , right the first stalinist lie is about the cost of the F-22, 300 mil.ha classic. 2nd, able to withstand the F-22, hmm is it really now.:D 3rd outmatching all european designs. Another corker of a statement.
I take every peice of information as it comes, I do not dismiss anything, just nobody has proven anything that I have said wrong. About the videos, there are alot of typhoon vids that show the same “we the best” footage.
typhoon1I’m pretty sure that the Su-35 will be a quite advanced and capable combat aircraft, the best Flanker ever and one of the best combat aircraft in the world. As a multirole fighter the Su-35 impresses by a wide range of weapon options, high payload and long range. I’m sure the Su-35 will be a very good fighter either, but you guys should start to see things a bit more objective and realistic. You guys speak about the Su.35s radar range but ignore that such a range is just achieved in best conditions and in a special radar mode which is not going to provide the best SA. The detection range against a Eurofighter is unknown as is the tracking range which would be required to cue a missile. But no of the offen claimed missiles like the KS-172 or R-77PD are operational, there not even information about these weapons being fully developed and tested. You guys obviously ignore the value of ESM and ECM systems as well. The Su-35s performance in terms of acceleration, supersonic performance including supercruise are so far not really proven. Neither the low RCS nor a tactically useful supercruise capabiliy are proven so far. No one of you guys can really predict at which range the Typhoon’s radar could detect the Su-35 and ignore support assets as well. By the time the Su-35 will enter production more advanced versions of the Typhoon will be available as well. Aircombat itself is way to complex to limit it to 1 or 2 factors.
yes!!! They make claims without any substantial evidence. I have been asking for radar tracking rages all day and have no replay yet 🙂
typhoon1Now explain with basic counter-numbers how the CAPTOR aboard a EF will flat out beat a Irbis equipped Su-35BM, especially with the kind of ECM that the Russians would deploy.
Have you even compared their deployable weapon suites?
Stop comparing your little toy in a one on one situation, where it loses anyway (2 on 1 more likely)! Price? See What? The EF costs as much as a Raptor, just about, and Sukhoi have stated they easily beat the latter in terms of pricing.
Also, in terms of no support? Are you completely out of touch with reality? The Il-78 has quite some range, you know? Not to mention the Su-35 itself has tanker capability AFAIK.
Operation values of the captor have not been released. Inform me about the Irbis, why do you think it would?
Price regarding, these are only protoypes, disscus price when its actually on sale, and EF, its not equal to the F-22, what planet have you been living on.
I was using the tanker argument against range accusations. In any combat sitiuation they would be eliminated with IFR. Why two su-35 vs 1 typhoon what about visa versa, russia may afford large numbers we will see, it only has a few su-34 that have been in developement for about 15 years and more. Other nations will only buy small quantities the the jet. As far as I know russia wants the PAK FA doesnt it and will only buy a limitednumberof su-35’s.
typhoon1It is not the same situation. The Typhoon is already in squadron service. The T3 is pretty much known. The Su-35 can be judged only by what Sukhoi is releasing…and what they have released so far is already enough to beat the Typhoon. No wishfull thinking there.
I guess you have a spy at Sukhoi and according to the info you have you came to the 4.5 to 1 exchange ratio:rolleyes:
Fanboys:p
lol yes, i reguarly go spying. No but seriously that predicted senario holds a deal of truth. I understand it wont be fully accurate, but nether is the typhoon used, but it gives some indication. T3 can have tricks up its sleeve, what would beat it if it had ASEA, meteor, its uprated EJ200’S (not neccessarilly TVC) and further reduced RCS methods. There have been claims of eleminating the vertical tail completely.
I want to know if this su-35 is better than typhoon, rafale (gripen i think does not really have a leg to stand on here) why is there no concern in EADS, Dassult aviaition.
typhoon1bigger is not always better, is the RCS idea not getting through?
More payload, but is it needed, carrying 6 BVR, 2 WVR, 3 tanks, flying in formation with another 4 typhoons should be overkill regarding missile numbers, again its back to quality not quantity. Meteor vs X, which is a pretty unknown field.
typhoon1Dream on Typhoon fanboy:p
Your shiny Tiffy has definitly a lower RCS than the Tornado. But I would not call it a LO aircraft. As for its capabilities, impressive they may be, but they are not going to be enough to beat the Su-35 on a consistant basis.
Don’t want to go into to much details. Suffice to say that the Typhoon is well known. The Su-35 we have seen is just the first prototype. Subsequent prototypes and production models will have some differentiation (typical Russian/Soviet way of bringing products). The Russians are releasing info only bit by bit. A lot is still not known about the Su-35. We don’t even know about some of the newer air to air missiles that are going to equip it with…never mind at what speed it will supercruise with x or y number of missiles attached to its pylons.
“enough to beat” again one of those one line wonders that just say something with no evidence. Yes the su-35 is first prototype, may I remind you the typhoons are in the same situation, T3 ring any bells. If you dont know the information how the heck can you claim its better, oh yeah thats right, because you want it to be.
typhoon112 BVR missiles are not big deal for Su-35 class fighter and most of it is very aerodynamically located. As Su-35 gain speed and altitude towards Mach 1. it will lose fuel. so 2 tons of extra BVR load will not make big difference to TWR. that exchange ratio is joke. u have seen Su-35 video when Sukhoi officially is shooting EF/AWACS combined with zero loss.
Areodynamilcally located, yeah on loadsa wing pylons which do cause drag im afriad. what video are you taling about,is it the one that should belong in a comic book?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK2d0LRWrbY
😀
typhoon1Pretty much confirm Supercruise from start. As more prototypes are built. Pilots will be allowed to fully exploit the flight profile
at what speed was this done, clean or not?
typhoon1Based on what?
It’s cheaper, bigger (ie, has a larger payload and can have a far more powerful radar), and it’s top end 4th generation aircraft. The Typhoon would be 4+ .
It has longer range, and can have a larger EW suite.
For the prices – you can have 2x Su-35BM for one Eurofighter. That is epic failure of immense proportions, at the least.
Cheaper, we will see. Bigger means nothing. Quality of the radar is all important, the current CAPTOR radar fitted in the EF is better than F-16 ASEA, any normal radar out there, when they develope an ASEA it will be better. Payload size, in terms of useful payload, carring 12 missiles will not alllow the su-35 to supercrusie if it can consistently anyway. What loadout is the typhoon unable to carry?? As far as I know it can carry any possible loudout you would want. Check out some of the most recent typhoon pics involving the ATG weapons 😉
longer range without in flight refuleing, when would any airforce not use it 🙂 Oh yes russia, because they dont really have any. There is no need for the typhoon to patrol miles and miles as its the countries it is designed to defend are now where near the flipping size of Russia. Larger EW suit, how??? Again it is quality not quantiy and thats what the EF has alot of.
yes you can have two su-35 for a typhoon, if you can anyway :(, but whats the point when there exchange ratio is 4.5 to one?
typhoon1The canards or foreplanes on the typhoon are quite special in their position on the plane, to maximise instantaneous turn rate by having a long moment arm, others, rafale, gripen, su-(canard derivitive) are no where near the distance of the canard from the CP/CG of the craft. I believe it does not matter where you put the control surfaces, front or back, as if they are in forward view as they are too with the su-35, (below the wing line) they will still contribute a RCS. The eurofighter relys much, much more on its canard foreplanes than really any other jet.
typhoon1I am saying this the Irbis very likely has enough power to detect the Eurofighter first and fire an IR homing missile first and having supercruise the Eurofighter can not escape either, who is going to escape from a fighter that can fire its eight missiles at once and detect you first? it will fire the missile first specially if it can carry new models see the Russians want the Su-35Bm for their air force why? and they say it will carry new missiels some with the power of beating the Meteor
The Eurofighter is not a F-22 and its canards are a great source of radiation and drag that is the reason the Su-35BM also deleted them
Why would the su-35 fire an IR missile first? Supercrusie would not be used to escape, who wants to crusie away, he would drop the stores, full rejeat and get the hell out of there, if th need arose.
Why would you fire eight missiles at a target? Detecting first is what is really to debate here. It is very complex and cannot be deemed that su-35 has supposidly a long radar range thus wins. Many, many more factors have to be taken into account would should make a good discussion, however the nature of that engagement would need a lot of classified data that is not avaliable on either side, but we could have a go 😎
going on what they say is not the best way my friend. Remember when the PAK FA was ment to be test flying now? Have to deal, with correct, proven facts by officials to make a reasonable argument.
Mig-23mld, you seem to know alot about the su-35 and you are very informative with a true aviaition interest. 🙂
how about some figures of the detecton ranges possible with su-35 and types targets with those distances
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