Levshahowever it did not help much, from link
” 18 RA-5Cs were lost in combat during the war, giving it the highest loss rate of any Navy aircraft in the conflict. 13 Vigilantes were shot down by flak, two were shot down by SAMs, one was shot down by a MiG-21, and the other two were lost to unknown causes over enemy territory.”
I recomend to read at least that web page. According to that site the Vigilante has been rather a pain in the a$$ than an exceptional fighter/bomber/recon platform. The problems mainly caused by technical imperfections and maintenance issues. On the other side I agree the Vigilante being advanced in some areas (aerodynamics, FCS, electronic equipment) considering the time period. Personally, I admire the Vigi too. 😉
RA-5Cs were often used in post bombing raid photo reconnaissance missions, to help in damage assessment. Consequently the North Vietnamese always expected a recce plane to be flying overhead soon after a raid – and were appropriately prepared… (oh, I see, Arthur has just explained)
So Martinez, what would the Soviets have used to fly such reconnaissance missions, one of those spyplane versions of the Yak-27/28 MANGROVE/BREWER-D family?
I think I’d rather be flying in the Vigilante thank you. :rolleyes:
Well, Harry Hillaker the father of the F-16 was impressed with Mikoyan`s test bed the Ye-8 and based the whole conceptual design of lightweight fighter on it. But I assume you have heard of that already.
Did he say that? I’d be surprised if any one in the F-16 design team had ever been to the USSR and seen a Ye-8 in the flesh or any blueprints or drawings. The Soviets were not known for been open or revealing about their latest X-planes.
But they could have been to France and seen one of these if they asked nicely (if any still remained)
Nord 1500 Griffon (1955)
LevshaLol Levsha, Actually there are lots of stories with it, it recently retired this year with whole lot of ceremonies and stuffs…
…IAF was seriously impressed with this and didnt wanted em to retire, too much cost and no parts made then bound to!
btw Levsha whats the diff between Recee and normal versions?
Joey
Don’t get me wrong, I’m actually an admirer of the MiG reconnaisance versions (see some of earlier posts in this thread) and I’m sure that it was well worth the money that the Indian air force paid for them if they really feel they have to photograph Pakistani territory, but…
They were sensible, if you ask me. The only viable Pakistani target which might have needed an interceptor of the MiG-25 kind would have been the RB-57F (they operated one on loan from the USAF for a few years from 1965 on), but that one was gone when the MiG-25 arrived in India. Apart from that – what would they need MiG-25s for?
even against an RB-57 a MiG-25 interceptor variant would have been overkill, a MiG-23 armed with R-23s would have done just as well, and in fact, with the exception of the SR-71, there is no aircraft in the western inventory that can escape the MiG-23,
I’m sure some sort of stripped down MiG-23 could even have reached a U-2 spy plane flying at 70,000 ft.
LevshaThe Mirage Balzac and MiG-23PD are quit similar to the J-8II, the J-8II looks like a half breed betwen a MiG-23PD and MiG-23MF Flogger B.
If there’s any aircraft that the J8II could be a ******* child of, it’s this one.
Su-15 (with offspring)
LevshaIts Sad, IAF actually wanted to keep it in service as it went in neighbouring air space frequently in such height where it was not possible for falcons to intercept.
Yeah, and it’s interesting to note that the Indians, having gone to all the trouble and expense of setting up the infrastructure and training programme, etc,etc, to operate the MiG-25RB recce version for over twenty years, never bothered to operate any interceptor versions. They must have been less than impressed by it or something!! :confused:
LevshaI agree. Maybe CL max is comparable to the original Flanker, but other key parameters look worse: structural limits (the Russian would be plains stupid if they design a 30 ton bomber for 9g)
Besides, has anyone ever tried sitting on the toilet at 9g :diablo: 😀 :diablo:
LevshaAnd let’s not forget the vectored nozzle technology on the F-35, which was originally developed by Yakovlev in Russia (or even in the USSR) and then sold to the USA for adaption and production.
There might even be a few Ka-30 helicopters used for logging as well – certainly in Canada, if not the States.
Let’s not forget all those privately owned Yak-52s, MiG-15s, MiG-17s, and even MiG-23s and MiG-29s I believe.
Also NASA’s Tu-144D ‘KonKordskii…
LevshaAmerican ‘hubris’! At that time the US semiconductor industry was about fifthteen years ahead of the Soviet semiconductor industry. So the Soviets having the knowledge of what we did was not all that bad because they would have to take a totally different approach to accomplish the same thing. The Soviet was not using microcircuits in their aircraft at that time! Belenko’s MiG-25 used analog circuits with vacuum tubes in their avionics.
The US Navy constantly improved the F-14, it was the first defense against airborne attacks. The F-14B was introduced and the F-14C was planned but dropped in favor of waiting a little longer and adding those changes to some others and creating the F-14D.Adrian
Well to begin with, the Soviets first priority when studying an F-14 would be to learn about its fire control systems – especially its AWG-9 radar and how to jam, mislead them or somehow neutralize them in combat. So perhaps the best way to find out if the Soviets ever received an F-14 is to examine the ECM/ECCM kit on those Tu-22M’s tasked with attacking US Navy carrier groups…
Also, the soviets had their own AWG-9 at that time in the shape of the MiG-31’s Zaslon radar – and operationally every bit as capable, although I believe it’s twice the weight of an AWG-9 and the Soviets would still want to learn how to reduce the weight of their avionics systems – especially by improving their microelectronics technology.
The increased weights and bulkiness of Russian/Soviet avionics was, and possibly still is, a major weakness of the Russian aerospace industry.
Levsha188 Billion Dollars.. Holy Crap!!!
And holy crap it is!
Such a figure would ten times the present annual military defence budget for the Russian Federation and equal to Russian government annual expenditures…
Are you sure Putin didn’t mean 18.8 billion dollars? :confused: :confused:
LevshaIt is utterly unimportant whether a MiG-25 would have been able to shoot an SR-71 down or not, presence of Foxbats effectively prevented recce overflights over Soviet territory,
I think the USAF was far more afraid of Soviet anti-aircraft missiles, it was missiles after all, which shot down the U-2s in the USSR, Cuba and China. The SA-5 missile should have been able to shoot down the SR-71 if it ever flew into range, the SA-4 missile might have been able to do so the SA-10 almost certainly.It would only have been a matter of time before the Soviets snagged an SR-71 overflying their territory
The Soviets had only to be lucky once – the SR-71, every single time.
LevshaActually there are real, long before the photos reached the public sector, information about them and the reasons for the for the Tomcats being in the Soviet Union were well known. The Soviet AF wanted a good look at a fourth generation American aircraft and primary weapon system, the F-14 and Phoenix Missile. The Iranians wanted technical assistance in maintenance, reverse engineering and, help in building an indigenous aviation industry.
The thermal batteries for the Phoenix missile were exausted by 1987, guess how the Iranians were able to keep the Phoenix Missiles currently operational? New wiring, rocket motors, and cooling systems for the Phoenix Missile have also been built. Assistance with reverse engineering has helped but, updating Iran’s technical infra-structure to a large extent has been a big factor.
Also, have you wondered why the IRIAF has only accepted a few MiG-29’s even though Russia keeps pushing for a major purchase of over one hundred MiG-29’s. Without a sizeable number of MiG-29’s, if the F-14A is not operational then, the most modern fighter the IRIAF has is the F-4 Phantom 2!
A lot of Soviet assistance came with the price of exchange of technical information. Guess what information the Iranian AF had that the Soviet AF really wanted?
The logic of your theory may sound credible enough – but bearing in mind that Soviet-Iranian relations weren’t that good in the 1980s, would the Iranians really allow the Soviets to compromise the technology and learn the secrets of what is after all – the leading air defence fighter in the Iran’s own air force?
Unless there is actual concrete proof that an F-14 was delivered to the Soviet Union in the 1980s there’s no reason to believe it happened.
If the Soviets had been allowed to have a look at an F-14 it seems the Americans didn’t know or didn’t care. When Victor Belenko defected to Japan in a MiG-25 in 1976, the Soviets responded by almost completely replacing the radar and missile guidance electronics of the now compromised interceptor. What did the Americans do to the F-14?
Oh I nearly forgot!! there was that F-14D avionics upgrade done in the late 1980s!!
Who knows what the motivation for this upgrade might have been 😉 😉
Levshait means for each and every Blackbird the US built Russia could field more than 30 MiG-25s/MiG-31s and probably around 15 MiG-25Ps for each and every Black bird
Who said you will shoot at the same time all the missiles, 20 MiG-25s will fire 80 missiles, however these missiles will be launched as it is requiered so the SR-71 will be very busy trying to avoid them
So; every time the Soviets attempted to intercept the SR-71, they sent up 20 MiG-25s to try to catch it?? 😮 😮
Still wasn’t enough though, or was it?? :confused: :confused:
Consider that the US in total built only 50 blackbirds including operational and prototype aircraft of the SR-71, A-12 and YF-12; Russia in the other hand built 1200 MiG-25s and 500 MiG-31 this gives you a total of 1700 aircraft.
You’re saying that 1000 MiG-25s were produced to intercept a few dozen SR-71s (and likely fail in the attempt)? I wonder how much that must have cost the Soviets?
They say that one of the main reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union was the economic burden of its military-industrial complex, a lot of this burden of course been taken up by the Soviet air defence system the ‘PVO’. Producing aircraft like the MiG-25, MiG-31, theABM-1 GOLOSH system for protecting Moscow from ballistic missile attack, the thousands of other SAM sites, the several hundred thousand personnel manning the whole shooting match.
All of it seems; to prevent the USSR been burnt to crisp six times over, instead of five, in the event of a nuclear war.
Whatever the questions about the reconnaissance value the SR-71, in its own way, it put a massive burden on the Soviet economy…
LevshaSr-71 it was planned to force down in a forward hemisphere and in such situation it did not have chances against Миг-25П let alone Миг-31. Belenko in general much that spoke, you ask it about ‘ indicative race ‘ which have arranged Sr-71 pair Миг-31 above Barents sea.[/SIZE]
in it he is explaining something that is the most likely way the MiG-25 can shoot down the SR-71 and is in a Head on attack this won`t reduce the range as an aft hemisphere attack will do to the AA-6 Acrid.
On the MiG-25 it’s said that the fire control computer cannot compute a solution for firing the missiles in the case of a head on attack – I should think especially so in head on attack were both aircraft have a combined speed of M=6. This is the alleged case for the MiG-25P, whatever about the MiG-25PD.
Regardless of the performance of the FCS computer I should think the launch window for firing the R-40 can only be measured in seconds, especially if consider the missile has to immediately ‘snap up’ to reach the SR-71’s altitude.
Have you any idea off the overall combat record of all types of SARH missiles? It’s not very good…
LevshaThere are several articles giving the following data the MiG-25 has four AA-6 Acrids, there are reports in books and the internet that the AA-6 ACrid has a Max range of 70km and a speed of Mach 4.5 or Mach 5, that speed is enough for shooting down an SR-71 but the missiles need to be fired from short distances if the SR-71 is flying at it`s max possible speed of Mach 3.5, however the SR-71 only can cruise at the speed of 3400km/h
Ah, well they’re just the estimated performance statistics for the R-40.
The question which has occupied most of this thread and 2 or 3 others is whether it’s good enough to shoot down an SR-71…
however the SR-71 only can cruise at the speed of 3400km/h
And how long can a MiG-25 cruise at M=2.83 or even M=2.6 for?
LevshaSOC up to what i have read technically speaking both the MiG-25 and MiG-31 can shoot down the SR-71,
Where did you read that?
Who wrote it?
what was the source, background or the basis of the information, which allowed the writer to make such a statement?
:confused: :confused: :confused:
LevshaSure the Russians could had in the Sukhoi T-4 an equivalent to the SR-71, but for what? you can have 20 MiG-25R with almost the same capabilities and for less money
The Sukhoi T-4 only flew 9 times. The first five times they didn’t even retract the undercarriage.The fastest it flew was Mach=1.3. It was designed to fly for 6,000km nonstop But considering the previous record of Soviet supersonic aircraft such as the MiG-25 and Tu-144 ‘Concordskii’ I’d say it would have ran out of gas long before that. And don’t mention in-flight refueling, considering the Soviets were always short of tankers, even for long range aviation. I’m surprised that this aircraft reached prototype, considering that the Americans cancelled their own B-70 ten years earlier – when they realized that the idea of a mach 3 strategic bomber was completely untenable in the face of modern air defences.
Mind you it’s one of the most impressive aircraft ever to fly and a true Russian descendent to Igor Sikorskii’s 4 engined bomber of 1913, the ‘Ilya Muromets’
Sign In
