GlendoraIf steely dan still takes care of this excellent thread he could do a minor update:
Nave Trieste, the new flagship of the Italian Navy is blue = launched – fitting out.
And the Ski-jump is already fitted. I hope you could see the image linked.
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GlendoraReread the entire post before commenting.
Reference was made to 3 separate vessels:
TCG Anadolu (LHD/Light Carrier)- under advance stages of construction
TCG Trakya (LHD/Light Carrier)- Contract to be signed
300+ metre CV proper – (STOVL)- newly announced
I read and standed all the idiocy you wrote in this thread, which shows once again that you don’t know nothing about aerospace or military navy.
The only thing useful was the link you provided to c4defence which was informative of Anadolu, twin ship, Trakya.
Unfortunatelly you wrote after:
Turkey’s TCG Anadolu is a highly modified derivative of the Juan Carlos class LHD designed as a light VTOL carrier- it cannot not operate STOVL aircraft.
which contradicts the infromation from c4defence. Again, good luck with 2 ships only VTOL capable, which means basically helos.
GlendoraTurkey’s TCG Anadolu is a highly modified derivative of the Juan Carlos class LHD designed as a light VTOL carrier- it cannot not operate STOVL aircraft.
If it’s really modfied to such a degree, good luck with the F-35B you referred in your limk, if Turkey will ever get them. I assume you know what is the maximum payload of the F-35B in Vertical take off.
Turkey’s newly announced 300m + vessel will however use a STOVL aircraft. Most likely a TFX naval variant
So your bombastic original post about a STOBAR (btw the links you provided referred just to the construction of a dry dock, which could be used i.e. for commercial and cruise vessels, nothing more) was incorrect?
Now you talk about a 300+ m STOVL carrier. Such a pity, the QE class is just 280 m, I thougt that the most advanced shipbuilders and engineers in the world could have squeezed something more then UK with 20 m more in lenght. 😀
GlendoraJust a maximum speed of 20kt for the new Vulcano Logistic Support Ship (LSS) being built for the Italian Navy.
GlendoraI am not referring to the weopons that are rarely used. Italy still simply cant produce competitive missiles and guided bombs in huge quantities that are required for round the clock operations in Middleast.
how many Italian weopons are in that T129?
Dude
I thank God that IRIS-T (which equip among the other a/c the Italian Typhoons) are not used in combat and I blame EF consortium for not having integrated yet the Meteor on the subject of this topic.
Italy and Turkey are different countries – AW just sold the Mangusta project to TAI – whatever TAI wants to put on the copter is their exclusive business.
As for “guided bombs in huge quantities”, Rwm Italia Spa, an Italian firm controlled by German Rheinmetall, produces in Sardinia the bombs the Saudis are using in Yemen and the French are using in MO (not that I am particullarry fond of it).
http://www.sardiniapost.it/cronaca/lisola-delle-bombe-nuovi-ordini-per-225-milioni-alla-rwm-di-domusnovas/
But I don’t expect that you can discern where is Sardinia.
GlendoraIt’s not as if the ‘A’ in MBDA stands for Alenia Marconi Systems…
You Ma’am just won the internet.
GlendoraI dont think Italy make much of weopons. i presume there will be more orders for weopons.
:sleeping:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_%28missile%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS-T
Just to name a few “weopons” for which Italian firms are partners.
GlendoraAs pointed out bythe official press release by FM http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/kuwait-eurofighter-typhoon the contract was actually signed by FM, not by the Minister Pinotti, who was just a testimonial of the signing (while the MOU was an intergovernmental affair).
Latest rumors: some unofficial sources report that there is also the option for 18 more aircraft, as pointed out in the last 2 paragrphs of this piece from Analisi Difesa
GlendoraYes its one source which did appear to be covering all of it’s bases and is also the same source previously questioning the Kuwaiti’s desire to train in Italy.
The very same source that today released this: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/171816/kuwait-says-eurofighter-deal-worth-%E2%82%AC7.94-billion.html
Head of the budgets committee MP Adnan Abdulsamad said the value of the warplanes deal is KD 2.6 billion.
….
( EDITOR’S NOTE: At today’s exchange rate of €3.1 euros to the Kuwaiti dinar, the deal’s price tag of KD 2.6 billion is worth €7.94 billion, which is in the very upper bracket of the price range (€7-8 billion) quoted to date.
Also at today’s exchange rate, the deal is valued at $8.64 billion. ….)
Which seems to suggest that the entire Finmeccanica deal, comprising, weapons, training and 20 years of support worth 8 billions € was approved.
Anyway I don’t like particularlly that source, altough evidently well acquainted with Finmeccanica officers, and personally I refrain to assume anything before something more substantial happens.
GlendoraThe issue here is that Kuwait prefers to deal with bae, as it would simplify training (UK in English) and the advantage of a common service provider with fellow Arab countries Saudi Arabia and Oman. Dealing with Italy is not the kuwaiti’s choice as it was forced upon them by the eurofighter consortium.
Definitivelly, training in English language at Italian Air Force is not the issue, despite what was reported somewhere in previous weeks. Kuwaitii instructors and pilots already train in Italy, along with some of their colleagues from Argentina, Austria, Greece, Holland, Singapore, and now Poland.
AMI developed an International Training Center at 61° Wing Galatina Air Base, quite some time ago.
Links from Italian Air Force (sorry, in Italian): http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/News/Pagine/20150130_ConsegnateLeAquileAiPilotidelKuwait.aspx
http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/News/Pagine/Arrivano-a-Lecce-i-piloti-della-Polonia.aspx
According to defense-aerospace, the support package is in question, but anyway let’s see what it happens.
Glendorawhere is this talk of BAE undercutting?
It was reported a few days ago here: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/171662/italy%E2%80%99s-eurofighter-sale-to-kuwait-stumbles-on-logistics-package.html
GlendoraCompare the cost of having a reliable stock of spare F-135 e.g. on the QE or Cavour with the cost of buying, operating and maintaining 2-10 MV-22s dedicated to this particular mission + the cost of keeping same reliable stock of engines in base.
I’d rather spend for two F-135 more and keep them aboard then buying two F-135 more and keep them ashore ready to be carried by the mighty Osprey.
MV-22s are great assets, but using them just for delivering spare engines is a non-sense, for a service just little smaller then USMC.
GlendoraIf the schedule for the Italian minister of defence shows she’s booked on the 0715 from Rome to Kuwait City tomorrow, that would be a clue, wouldn’t it? 😉
If she isn’t booked on the 0715 to Kuwait City, that would be a clue as well! :apologetic:
Althoug Mrs. Pinotti could use a different solution to reach Kuwait City, technically, despite what defense-aerospace wrote, it is not the Italian minister of defence that could sign the deal, but Finmeccanica/EFA managers or eventually the Italian National Armaments Director. (Maybe Italian Air Force officers are responsible for the agreement for training and other terms, though).
For the ones interested in the latest financial/technical issues on the agreement, a link to pass to gog translate: http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/finanza-e-mercati/2016-02-13/finmeccanica-kuwait-firma-eurofighter-081612.shtml?uuid=ACwoPkTC . Just a quick synopsis of the last paragraph which is the most interesting: robust advanced payment bonds are demanded by Finmeccanica as a grant to safeguard the continuity of the deal.
Let’ see what it happens – I guess little officialy happens in Kuwait on Fridays.
GlendoraThe Typhoon and the F-35A use different refuelling methods: drogue and basket and boom and receptable. Refuelling does not occur when the receiving a/c have consumed the complete fuel load, especially on the pond in winter and in adverse weather.
Aircraft tend to remain toppled, see this page from RAF: http://www.raf-ff.org.uk/exercise-news.asp?info=Trail+Blazers&start=12
Refuelings occur when favorable conditions are met and no inference could be made from the numbers of toppling from this specific transatlantic crossing on the general ferry range nor of the F-35 nor of the Typhoon.
GlendoraConstruction works officially started on the new Logistic Support Ship of the Italian Navy
The ship will be named Vulcano. Fully loaded displacement should be ~23 000 t.
An unofficial but quite reliable rendering:
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