Thanks.

I feel like we have just sold India down the stream without a paddle.. slippery Road to a US mastered India, just like they have done to Pakistan, UK, Australia and other nations.

Probably because they know that a truly independent India is an upcoming world power and a potential foe.
For India there are two options – stick to the US and enjoy all what’s coming with it, or take the harder road of making it alone.

From Washington post.

“Under the terms of the deal, India agreed to place its civilian nuclear facilities — but not its nuclear weapons arsenal — under international monitoring and pledged to continue to honor a ban on nuclear testing. In return, it would have access, for the first time, to conventionalweapons systems and to sensitive U.S. nuclear technology that can be used in either a civilian or a military program. It could also free India to buy the long-sought-after Arrow Missile System developed by Israel with U.S. technology.“

Link

“U.S. technology”?
Ouch. Without underestimating the American contribution to the Arrow program, mainly the financial one, it’s still an Israeli product… :rolleyes:

Well you know,I think the F-4E would have been a better choice when you consider the range and weapons capability.Not all F-4E Kurnass were withdrew due to zero airframe hours remaining.Is that why Isreal sold Mexico both CH-53Ds and E-2Cs,they weren’t safe anymore? I know for a fact both the E-2C and CH-53Ds were used alot in the wars.The truth is,if I was just wanting to spout off foolish ideas,how about “Mexico should adapt the FC-1 or whatever its called now”.Or even better,how about some used Mig-29s,like Peru bought? Or lets go all out and go for some retired F-15s or maybe F-14s.

My cousin was a chief technician in the 201 squadron in the time it was closed. If he said that most of them were nearly unflyable, and risky, then personally I believe him. You should remember that some of the planes of the 201 were also Vietnam veterans.
There were of course a few exceptions – a few planes with less hours on the airframe. But they were very few, and not enough to create a squadron.

As for the E-2Cs – They weren’t used all that much. They went through one war, and not too much missions. The Israeli AF found the Hawkeye much less effective over terrain than over sea, and the Hawkeyes were soon retired, and were stored for many years before the Mexicans got them. They didn’t have much flying hours.

The current plan in the Israeli AF is to upgrade the remaining CH-53s in a way that will keep them in service until 2025. The Israeli AF considers each of its CH-53s as a valuable treasure, due to its great capablities and the fact that it’s no longer being produced. In general, the IAF doesn’t sell its CH-53s, but I guess the Mexicans offered us a good deal.
The list of items the IAF is selling can be found here:
http://www.sibat.mod.gov.il/airforce/overview.htm
Note that the F-4 is mentioned. But while the AF is willing to sell its F-4s, the question is, does it really worth it for the customer?
Perhaps only to a Phantom operating country, such as Turkey. But not for Mexico, with its lower budget and different needs. The whole idea of developing a brand new logistic support for a plane over 36 years old is both costly and ineffective, in my opinion. Not to mention the fact that all of the airframes must go through a major and costly overhaul. The last major overhaul they went through was in the Kurnass-2000 upgrade, about 16 years ago.

The used F-16s sound good,and some Block 15 ADF models would more then likely be affordable.However with the recent deliveries from Israel of E-2C Hawkeyes and CH-53D Yasur 2000s,there is also the possibility that Israel could provide some fighter aircraft as well.These could be in the form of Kfir C.7s or maybe even some retired F-4E Kurnass 2000s.Imagine Mexican F-4Es operating along with E-2Cs.

Kfir C.7 – they are alright, and probably will do for Mexico for the next 10 years, but in order to be sure they could operate it for 15 years and more, they have to upgrade them to the C.10 standard, not only because it has better avionics, radar and IFR probe, but because these planes go through a major overhaul that makes wonders to their airframe. Let’s not forget that the last version of the Kfir in the IAF service, the C.7, flew for about 12 years. They wasted just a bit less than half or so of their airframes life. While as a multi rule second hand fighter jet it’s a bargin, as for price, the airplane you get and its flight hours, it still needs to be updated for the 21st century. It is said that the C.10 is comparable to earlier F-16Cs, such as the Block 30 and 40. In certain areas it’s even better than them, for example by having the EL/M-2032 radar, said to be better than the F-16I’s radar. And when all of that comes in an awefully low price, around 8 million dollars, I think it’s well worth it.

As for the F-4s – nice to dream about it, but the Israeli F-4s were retired due to one reason – they weren’t safe to fly anymore, due to the fact that all of the airframes were in the end of their life. These F-4s saw more combat missions than any other F-4s in the world, serving in two wars and many operations and combat sorties.
Upgrading them yet again is possible but isn’t cost effective.

Either way, it’s not what Mexico needs – they need a multi rule fighter jet, capable of bombing enemy targets and protecting the skies of Mexico. If we’re looking at western sources for this kind of fighter jet, I think that they should look on F-16s from a nation that doesn’t fly them too much, which leaves Israel out of the list (maybe even MLU or ACE them), Kfir-2000s or even early F-18s, but the best solution in my opinion is to upgrade their Tigers. The Tiger is a very good fighter jet. It’s soft spot is its avionics and airframe, but both of these things could be upgraded dramatically, as seen in many other Tiger operating countries, such as Chile, Brazil, Turkey and Singapore.

The Dhruv operated in Israel:

Sure we do, it’s just that none of them is operational 😉

First, I want to express my sorrow and grief over the death of all of the British and foreign civilians in these coward terrorist attacks.
As a person living in a country suffering many terrorist attacks, I understand well what’s going on in Britain now.

However, with your permission, I have two questions bothering me for a while now.
1) How could it be that the British intelligence failed so badly, and couldn’t do anything to prevent the attacks?
And what is taking the British police so long to figure out what exactly happened in each attack scene and recover the remaining bodies?
2) Well, not really a question, and forgive me if it may sound a bit rude, it’s not my intention. The question is, why do people here and in the UN condemn so quickly and strongly the terrorists, both those who commited this horrible act and those who are based worldwide and planning more of these attacks?
The UN particulary. When Israeli civilians are attacked by terrorists, well withing the international borders of Israel, most of the world’s reaction is pretty cold. Yes, it’s true we have many of these attacks, but it doesn’t make each attack easier. Therefore I think that the world must react much more strongly against any terrorist attack, anywhere in the world. We are no less humans than the British nation, we too want to hear the world supporting us and condemning these cowardly acts.

With all regards to the British people, and peace loving people, may they be Christian, Muslims or Jews.