SOC,
I stopped reading your post after this line:

Unfortunately, we are slaves to the survival of the morons in Israel, so anytime anything happens that might affect their lives we have to et involved. That is all this will be about, Israel.

I would like to say that this statement is false, and morally and intelectually wrong. Your blind hateress towards Israel and more over, to the Israeli people, is a shame.

Moderators, I will not tolerate this additude, not towards Israel nor towards any other nation. As an equal member in this forum I request your help in stopping this ugly way of insulting each other due to nationalistic feelings. I’m sure you wouldn’t tolerate any kind of statement like “the morons in Britain” or “the morons in China”. It’s also very disappointing that you didn’t pay attention to this until I alerted you. Moreover, it is against the rules that were written by this forum’s managers to the benefit of its users.

SOC, (thank god) I live in a democratic state. I as well as you can say we may not like any kind of security, economical or educational policy made by the Israeli government. You may completely disagree with my government. Fine, I have no problem with that. Actually I will support you to do so and to believe in your truth.

However, your statement here is against all the demorcratic principals over which our two democracies are based on. For example, I can’t say something like “those American idiots shouldn’t have electced George Bush”, but that would be incorrect and insulting as many Americans voted for other candidates, such as John Kerry.

I hope you get my point, and we could all continue with this discussion.
And for the rest of the users – I’m sorry to interfere in your discussion, and I hope you understand.

A better picture of the Black Spit flying over Ezer Weizman’s tomb.

Just got these……

Translation of attachment 1 required.
Anyone knows what that Mig-31 like plane is (in attachment 2,3)

In the far right picture,the first fighter is probably an F-16. The other one appears to be the Russian space shuttle carried over that plane that the Russians developed to carry it – and I don’t remember its name. And I don’t mean the An-225. IIRC there was something before, more like in the shape of the plane in that picture.
Either way, it’s a space shuttle 😉

My grandfather knew Ezer Weizman, from the days of the Israeli independence war.
My grandfather was a member of Kibbutz Revivim, which was cut off from the rest of the young Jewish state. One member in Revivim was the daughter of the woman that in the future would become the first female Prime Minister of Israel, Golda Meir. When Meir wanted to visit her daughter, it was Ezer Weizman that flew her to Revivim in a Piper. When they landed, Ezer used to walk around the Kibbutz and talk to the ladies, and the Kibbutz members, including my grandfather, sat in a room with Ezer and Golda Meir, and they told them about what was going on in the rest of Israel and the war. My grandfather remembers Weizman as a happy young man, he used to grab Meir’s daughter and start dancing with her. He remembers him as an unusual combination of a rude and almost savage young man, but in the same time a loving person, with a great warm heart, a sense of humor and a man of honor. Ezer Weizman continued to be the same until his death.
One thing is sure – Golda Meir wasn’t too happy with him. “That Ezer”, she said, “is driving me crazy with his flight”. He used to shake the plane very hard to make her crazy 😀

I don’t know exactly how many hours this machine has flown but I suspect that it is relatively few in any one year and there have been times when it has been ‘down’ for some period. The civilian contractors who maintain it went deeper than ever previously in the last round of maintenance following the x-ray procedure of another ‘friendly military operator’.

I have a copy of the aircraft logbook from July 1955, the end of its military service, and total time on the airframe was 486 hours. I doubt that its got more than 1000 hours total by now even 50 years on.

The Israelis have always been very protective of the hours flown and selective of the very few pilots that have flown it.

Renown test pilot Danny Shapira, who was the sole pilot for many many years, once told me that he always advised everybody what a tricky little aircraft it was to fly and winked.

Well he would say that wouldn’t he?

Mark

Actually it’s only flying during the holidays, so it doesn’t have a lot of flying hours in its history.
It also flew yesterday over Ezer Weizman’s tomb in the end of his funeral, very low and in two circuits, following some F-16s. Since it is Passover it’s also flying every day over the IAF museum. I hope to be there in friday.

Here you go.
The Black Spit and an F-15 on the cover of the Israeli air force bulletin in 1994.
http://www.iaf.co.il/sip_storage/files/3/19963.jpg

Eventually, it doesn’t mean much. As written, sales would be allowed.
I wonder though if it will affect the integration of the Israeli systems in the F-35, such as the Elbit HUD and helmet.

I give in that link tells nothing about history of the development.
The later HARPY was a joint German-Israeli project in the 80s at first. Dornier GmbH (now part of EADS) and IAI were partners to develope the “DAR” for selling it to the German Bundeswehr. It was similar in function to the Boeing BRAVE 200, which started 1983.
Dornier for example integrated the Infra-Seeker from Telefunken in that system. The sales attempt to the Bundeswehr failed in 1989. So IAI decided to go on with it alone, what becomes the HARPY. By that looking into further help from the USA to overcome technical obstacles. With success as shown.
We do not forget that the USA operated and joint produced Israeli UAVs at that time. So many US components were incorporated, when the USA pourred a lot of money into UAV development and related items. Did Israel built CPUs in the meanwhile? It was not the repair or overhaul of HARPY what stirred the uproar, but the upgrade through new software which made HARPY much smarter and capable. In times, when source-codes are no longer secure to prevent a Chinese clone later on.
[A similar attempt with SEAMOS became a failure in the 90s.] Maybe you have more details about HARPY in the meanwhile.

I stand corrected then. But I do think that the US is killing our military industrial complex by trying to prevent so many arms deals that we try to perform. That Harpy overhaul or upgrade was supposed to be made in Israel by Israel to what is eventually an Israeli made product. But well, it’s an endless debate.

They are removeable.
Before…

And after…