Erezink, I can recommend you a very good shop with tasty hats, and rather cheap as well…
I know it because I ate quite a few hats myself in the past few months – A wonderful democratic elections in the Palestinian Authority, democratic elections in Iraq, Lebanese calling Syria out of Lebanon, and maybe soon Syria will indeed leave Lebanon and I’ll have to eat yet another hat.
So anyway, in the middle east reality changes in matter of minutes. A few years ago all of the above was unthinkable. So who knows 😉
ErezThe best non violent way will really be to remove the current regime in Iran by letting the young generation start a revolution against the old bunch of nutcases that lead their country in the wrong direction.
The only question is what will happen first – a revolution or an Iranian nuclear weapon.
ErezI’ve just read a report that a sattelite rented by the IAEA revealed that the Iranians are building another nuclear reactor near the city of Araq.
ErezNo……I never said it was 100% your fault…!! Yes….everybody has his/her share in all the J-10/Lavi messes we had so far……….But…..my point is….posts that can cause trouble should be avoided in the 1st place………
That’s easy to say in retrospective 😉
ErezI tend to agree.
All the recent talkings about IAF pilots and commanders saying that “they are ready” could be just a cover up for the real plans.
After all, in 1981, when they really did plan to attack the Iraqi nuclear reactor, they were all sworn to silence, and not to tell it even to their family. This talking to the press that goes on in the recent time is either a serious mistake, if the plan is really to attack the Iranian nuclear program by air, or just a deception.
ErezWait….minute…..I don’t like jumping into these pow-wows…..BUT!!!
But, don’t try point the finger purely at GD or wolfy….YOU WERE the one who posted the Lavi pic in the “China’s News, Pics and Speculation Part 6 ” and said “BTW can anyone alse see the ‘family’ resemblance here? “….
You have a responsibility here too….Is this the 1st time that you posted such a thing and things went out of controls? NO! Is this the 2nd time that you posted such a thing and things went out of controls? NO! To be honest….I don’t think any of us know exactly how many times this has happened…..??!! There were many posts by you directly claiming or hinting at some Lavi/J-10 connections and things went complete out of control…….I am sure you know very well that the Lavi/J-10 connection Proponents/opponents never see eye to eye (and i doubt they ever will)……and yet…..you did the very same thing in this thread by posting that Lavi pic and saying “BTW can anyone alse see the ‘family’ resemblance here? “……and guess what!! The same old pow-wow happened again…!!
You also have a responsibility here……..You could have simply avoided that post in the 1st place and none of this would have happened……
So…I say again…….You also have responsibility here not to post provocative stuff…….!!
PS:
And mods…..Pls clean-up this thread or lock-it………so we can start a “China’s News, Pics and Speculation Part 7” and forget all the Nonsense here in part 6…..
I accept my share of responsibility.
It was a mistake by me to put this picture here. Had I knew what would become of it I wouldn’t do it. Honestly, that’s the truth and I’m not ashamed to say it. I was taking it more as a joke, even note the smilies. In a second thought, I guess it was provocative in the eyes of some members.
But Hyperwarp – don’t try to make it look like as if it’s my fault that every discussion that involved the J-10/Lavi got out of control. It’s a touchy subject and everybody had/has a share in this mess.
ErezYou’ll be surprised to hear about how “good” the relationship between Turkey and the Arab world is already. The Turks find it hard to forget what the Arabs did them in the early 20th century.
But still, you’re quite right.
The best way to go (though not the easiest) will be to leave Turkey out of this.
ErezYes, in fact.
This will end this ugly chapter in my membership in this forum.
And as I’ve already said before, good luck with this thread.
Please do not open a Lavi thread, as nothing is left to be said in it, not to mention people here who are willing to participate in a civilized conversation.
Best of luck.
ErezWell, the IAF practices there all the time. Iran’s nuclear program is a risk to Turkey no less than it is for Israel.
Besides, they could always deny that such strike came from their territory, or just play innocent, like the late king Hussein of Jordan did after he saw the F-16s going over Aqaba in 1981, but didn’t alert Jordan’s or SA’s airforces.
ErezThe easiest way will be through Turkey, should they allow it. However Turkey shares only a northern border with Iran, so it will be quite a way along the Iran-Iraq border to go until they could reach Busher.
ErezErez:
your last reply is so full of wholes and inaccurate assumptions it is almost too easy to take it apart. but im not going to because this is a good thread and i want to keep it alive and on topic.
if you want to say more about the LAVI, go start another thread where you move this argument.
i have already given you a way out, if you dont take it, i will be forced to bring in the moderators.
Now this is outrageous.
My last post was nearly totally pointing out near unarguable facts.
I don’t need your ways out, plawolf, neither your mercy. If you want, bring the moderators in. I didn’t violate any of the laws on which this forum stands. For once, you and GD could have put your nationalistic feelings in the side and listen as civilized people to another member’s opinion.
You chose not to. That’s a shame, but don’t expect me to cry over it. Your lack of will to listen to different opinions instead of taking them as idiotic is your own loss.
You had a good thread until this argument started and I watched it every day. But go on with your discussions, obviously you are the ones not mature enough to listen to other’s opinions.
Good luck.
ErezWell GD, you said your’s, I’ve said mine.
It’s going nowhere and quite frankly I’m really disappointed that no understaning was reached between us, in any matter.
I didn’t quote you because you told me earlier on you didn’t want to reply and you said it twice. I tend to ignore people who said they want no part of the debate. Don’t tell me you don’t want to reply and then come back on again.
Be accurate, for once, ok?
When I posted that Lavi picture, I said I didn’t want to hijack the thread by making it yet another J-10-Lavi thread. But since you decided to let this argument be a part of this thread, we went on.
his is obvious daydreaming and bullsh!t, especially in the Lavi’s case. Israel has denied selling it to China. That could mean only two things: one, Israel never sold Lavi to China or two, Israel has to hide and lie and to the US because the tech is American. If Israel owned the tech and sold it to China in the open, then we wouldn’t be having this idiotic debate.
Israel has something to hide and a reason to lie to the US. Because even if it was only Israeli aviation technology that was sold to China, that still means a lot of political mess for us. American politicians would have been jumping the opportunity to cut off the military aid. So even though we didn’t violate the American embargo over China, and didn’t sell China American systems, we still had a lot to risk.
Bullsh!t. These three planes were respectively French, French and French. The Arye was a paper project and China had dozens of those, not just the J-9 but the original J-10, Q-6, Y-9 and too many others to name. Some of China’s like the J-12 flew though. To think China needed a design from an untested and novice Israeli industry that is based on American components that China can’t get is pure hubris and bullsh!t.
Again, your reffering to my qoute isn’t accurate.
I mentioned the Fouga and the Nesher, which are French, because you said we don’t have experience in BUILDING jet aircraft. While these planes weren’t Israeli designed, they were Israeli built.
The same with the Kfir, only that this plane includes much more Israeli technology than the Nesher.
The IAI was founded in 1953. That means that it already exists for 52 years.
I wouldn’t call it novice and untested.
You’re going around in circles with one illogical excuse after another. The “risk of losing the aid is just too great” and yet you are claiming that Israel took that very risk in selling an US-funded project to China.
You are still ignoring a simple fact that I’ve already written about here – only 40 percent of the Lavi project was financed by the Americans. That means that the majority of the project was financed by Israel, and with Israeli technologies. That gives us every right to sell it. But on the other hand, selling a sophisticated weapon system to the enemy of your most important ally, while not violating any laws, causes a lot of troubles, especially when that ally is funding the majority of your army.
Now GD, let’s end this discussion before it will get even messier.
Obviously you try to take me for a foolish kid, and I don’t like it.
ErezDeino, I’ve also created an ‘artist’ (yeah right 😉 ) impression of that early Lavi. Since I know you are a fond of cancelled projects, I fought you might be interested in it.
It also clearly shows that the early Lavi had even more connection to the Kfir, and it is closer to what concept #33 of the Arye was. It also supports my point that the Lavi is not based over the F-16. What happened was that when the engine was changed to the PW1120, similar to the F-16s F-100, they also changed the original intake of the Lavi to an F-16 like intake.
ErezSorry … couln’t see the picture ! Could You please upload it here ???
Thanks in advance, Deino
Sure 🙂
ErezIt was already denied by the airforce, and it was discussed in this forum as well:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38463&highlight=Israel+syrian+MiG-29s
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