I always thought Lavi would’ve had a lot of export success, I mean it would’ve probably been cheaper and smaller than the F-16 and M2K yet also with no political strings attached.

Sadly, not true.
The Lavi still had American parts in it, most importantly the engine.

Also Erez, how can you make the assumption that the 1980s Lavi with modern 80s avionics is better than the 2000s J-10 and especially not knowing whats in the J-10?

Well, it’s not exactly 80s avionics. We’re talking about avionics that were developed in the late 80s, and deployed in the upgrade projects the IAI carried through the 90s. The modern avionics the IAI is building today are based over the avionics that were developed for the Lavi. Also, the operational Lavi was supposed to have a modular avionics suite, that would have been upgraded every several years.
So I think that an operational Lavi, especially of the last Lavis that were supposed to be delievered to the IDF/AF in 2003, would have been more advanced when it comes to avionics than the J-10.
But since it’s all theories, no one can claim to be 100% right.

For pointing a structure that both Arthur and I had said is common to all two-seat conversions?

Everything from the A-4 to the EF2000 has spine because you need it to fair in the second seat which is most often set higher than the first. It’s like me getting bought drinks for pointing out that the J-10B has wheels.

Besides, buying you beer is contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Not all aircraft. The F-16D for example (or B) didn’t have an avionics spine until the Israeli air force asked for one. The Lavi didn’t have a spine either.
Judging by the looks of that spine (wide, built with compartments) and the antenna on it, it seems to me as an avionics spine. After all, I’m pretty sure that antenna is connected to some device, and that can’t be done if that spine is filled with fuel. And if you insist that it was built because of aerodynamic reasons then ok, but why not to fill it with heavy avionics and by doing so they can also balance it and give it new and better capablities?
And GD, I was thinking of root beer 😉

well, looks like CAC has managed to surpass my expectations of them this time. i only expected things like avinoics spins to come in much latter on after a basic twin seater trainer verson has been feilded.

I feel exactly the same thing. I feel nothing but admiration to the creativity of the Chinese engineers.

i will 😎

Cheers! 😉

Here is a better one …

OK, who’s buying me the beers? 😀

I thought the cancelation of the Sonic Cruiser ended the civilian part of that dream.

Which cockpit? Lavi??!

It’s just might be. The IAI had (has?) an integration lab of the Lavi cockpit, which they used for integrating all new stuff they invented throughout the years, including HUDs.
Then again, looking at the computer standing next to it – it seems to be LCD, pretty much a recently invented technology. The IAI did used the Lavi lab well into the 90s, but who knows.

Did your country helped with China’s current AWAC system as well, Erez??? Cos if you
had indeed had a hand in it, then you are going contrary to America’s wishes of not transfering military technology
to the Chinese. You’ve in fact commited an American criminal act when you did so .

America, as you know, just won’t have it. And, without America, no baby lion for Isarel.

About the current AWAC, I don’t know, but excuse me, even if we did helped them, the technology came from the Israeli financed and developed Phalcon. Therefore, I don’t need to ask permission from nobody.
About the J-10, which is generelly accepted as a Chinese Lavi derivative, maybe we shouldn’t have sold it to them, but we can also look at this differently – the US itself sales a lot of civilian aviation technologies to China, that could without a doubt be used for military uses. So again, hypocrisy celebrates.

Erez:

Hello,long time no see your post!

I understand what you think & upset about the cancellation of Lavi. But I think the Lavi had helped China so much in aviation development. Or you can say China owed to israel,thats what I think. Without the Lavi, China still making Russian/Soiviet planes. If there wasnt Lavi project go ahead maybe China bought the Mig29 and that was nowhere to be potent. Israel helped China alot,even soviets in 1950s provided very limited help over helping Chinese making fighter. The soviets just pack up their blueprints and leave in 1960.

I think like this,the US wont help any country to build a fighter so does her allies and even Lavi go ahead,Lavi has very limited power due to US political,commercial privileges. US providing money for israel to get her weapons for defense, the requiries was the money must goes back to US contractors,this is common sense.

Basically only country with big budget can afford such a risky long term project and thats the reason why China brought Lavi back to live and explore the designs to max.So thats not a bad thing.I can tell you many people(military/civilians) in China were shocked to know israel’s high tech military power and of course with respect.

Check here to see real J10B
http://www.stormpages.com/jetflight/fighter/J-10B0.jpg

Regards

Well, I can only hope that China will find a good use for the young lion. Or should we now say, young Dragon 😮