PII, I got you a very high quality picture of the 2032. I can send it to you if you need it.
I may also find a picture of the AN/APG-76, I believe it is inside an F-4 radom, if you really need it (can take me hours to find though).

Victor, thank you.
Yet please, let’s continue without flaming. We were just beginning to get out of that.
🙂

PII, how about a ride at the Super Phantom?:D
And my choice is too obvious…:cool:

I do not give a damn about your natural resources. Where is it written that Israelis have right to have everything in excess? Do you care about whether Botswana or Uruguay has resources? If you got none then start working on something else or return to agriculture.

Nowhere, but that natural resource was once at our hands and we gave it up.

You have absolutely no right to conquer anything, buddy. This oil is not yours. In 1948 the state of Israel was created artificially simply by taking land that has belonged to a sovereign country. That was a daylight robbery.. The historical blahblah about how this all once belonged to Israel are quite nice but, in my opinion, absolutely inacceptable.. What would happen if Italians called for all the lands that once belonged to Roman Empire? Or Greeks for the lands once under conquer of Athens and Sparta?

If you don’t except the fact that we were here 2000 years ago and we CAN PROVE IT by THE BIBLE, then you don’t except god itself.
And this was war, buddy. We took this territory and no one gave much damn until we gave it back. And as being occupied at war, it should have been returned at peace. But I don’t think that the US for example will go out of Iraq without any gain. We were attacked, we fought back, we concquered, it’s (was) our’s now.
So stop the hypocricy.

No need to thank ME, mate, I am not US, I have not paid a single penny on taxes on your country…

You got a very strange philosophy, Erez. According to you, with the aid program not US saved your ass, you have saved theirs…

Ok, then… Let us all be beneficial, let’s order even more F-15Is to help American people.. I would definitely not mind if my country ordered (let us be greedy) 400+ Strike Eagles and got them all for free and thus prevented thousands of American workers from being fired. Damn, you got very human reasons to order your weapons…

Now to my personal sacrifice, my contribution to the American wealth.. I suggest I order four more Strike Eagles for free, one for me, one for my brother and two for spare parts. Plus three additional spare engines (just to be sure) and two million gallons of JP jet fuel. Plus some mainetenance equipment and pilot training. All this free of charge.. I mean, keeping the US folks busy is enough help, why bother paying.

Good!

Sorry, I believed you are American.
It’s not that it’s all fair. Yet you took this responsibily when we gave up Sinai.
I’m not threating, but do you want us to re-occupy Sinai solely because we don’t have much natural resources of our own?
I mean, people here think they are such a great experts, but when it comes to a bit of history, they gotta go back to high school. Are we such a suckers to give up oil for nothing?
Of course not. We got the aid.
By that logic, according to the peace agreement between Israel and Egypt, if you would stop the aid, would we have the right to conquer Sinai again?
And then all the hypocrats will shout : “No way! you are such an aggresive nation!”.
Flex, this is why the US doesn’t give such gifts to anyone.

I thought a Lavi-expert like you didn’t need any proof for this
The original concept of the Lavi (a cheap, simple, lightweight Skyhawk and Kfir replacement) was for an entirely Israeli product. However, by the time it was cancelled it was a US-funded project with 40% technical input by the US. A total of 730 US companies were contractors for the Lavi, as admitted by then Minister of Defense Rabin himself. Engine, composites, avionics, aerodynamics and ECM were all American, or were built with American patents or research as foundation. Not much indigenous about that.

We can argue about that for days (for example, you included systems that thier R&D was financed by the US as US technology, and that is a bucket of bull$hit:) )
but the fact that 40% of the airplane was US technology (if it really was) doesn’t make it non-Israeli.
Take for example the Su-30MKI. It got Israeli, Indian, French and Russian systems in it. Does that makes him non-Russian?:p

Plus Israel helps China to build the J10, which is Lavi revisited and which might become one annoyance for the USN. But reverse logic says, that Israel helps the US military/industrial complex by feeding potential enemys advanced technologies and so nascents the need for more US stuff to be built. Thanks to Erez Israel.

Maybe, but unconfirmed.
And I believe you meant “Eretz Israel”. Or was that some kind of a joke?

MANNN!!!!! I am really shocked with what Mr. Erez is saying! The US has done so much for israel the past 50+ years. And just after reading what Erez wrote………….well………………what can I say……..I sincerely hope its just only his opinion and not other Israelis.

Hyperwarp, what did I say?:(
The taunge was a bit dirty, but I was just being angry… 🙁

The same happens here in Germany where I live now. One member of German parliament (Martin Hohmann for CDU) was recently forced to give up his post after he has critisized the policy of how Jewish (always the good ones) and Germans (always the bad and brutal ones) are presented in local and worldwide movies and media and after he has pointed out that the Bolchevik revolution in 1917 in Russian was actively supported by local Jewish community.

Altough off topic, I’ll just say I personally don’t see the Germans as a brutal nation/people.

So what. My tax dollars support a program to give away fighters. Yes allies need hardware, but there is a point where it isn’t a big help for the economy, it is corporate welfare. The aircraft production industry is hardly stable employment anyway. Same with the F-15K. Same with the Polish F-16 deal ( the ultimate give away deal ). The corporations and obviously congress certainly aren’t concerned about U.S. employment. Especially when you have 3000 + / – workers in turkey building F-16 components and Samsung does a big chunk of Korean F-16s etc.

So what?
I’ll tell you “so what”:
Do you have any idea how much money are you saving because of the fact that these people are working and aren’t in the streets?
It starts from social security and ends with saving money due to less crime.
If you’ll calculate all these, maybe you’ll see that the aid is quite good for the US as well.

Yep, you beat them and after it threathened to get too big (involvement of USSR and USA) you were told to stop your march into Syria and Egypt, that’s right. Though I don’t think I am a revisionist historian when I say these Arab states got you completely by surprise on the day of the attack; even if you knew that they had quite a buildup going on. This happened to be very bad for Dayan’s remaining political life, remember. You beat these Arab states (fortunately), but whether you would win or not wasn’t so clear at the outset of the war.

No. We knew about the war coming even few months before it started. Even the late King Hussein of Jordan told Golda about the war coming (a lot before we had a peace agreement with them), and she did nothing after the US made it clear it won’t back Israel if we attack first. And we didn’t. The US involvment started only after the Soviet one did.

I’m not calling people anti-semite, and I’m not calling you anti-semite (strange that only you say it, isn’t it?).
But let me tell you this, as a Jew (theif, by your words), as a person who believes in democracy, if there’s a thing that I’m afraid of the most, it’s the fall of the US.
I won’t even think about it in my worst mightmares. I believe I’m totaly pro-American, not anti-American.

I just hope I won’t meet you in a dark alley..

Agree with you.

Just a point: the Osirak ‘reactor’ was a pathetic research reactor, incapable of providing any real impetus to Iraq’s then non-existent nuclear program. In fact, it was only after the reactor was bombed that Saddam even started an effort towards nuclear weapons (one which was stopped decisively come 1991). Israel didn’t do anything that great in boming Osirak.

Vympel, I don’t know what about you, but I actually read books about these things.
I’m currently reading a book called “Tamuz in flames”. I won’t start with details but please believe me with one thing: Iraq was about to use this reactor for production of nuclear weapons.
For example:
1)They already had a Soviet research reactor, which they didn’t and couldn’t use it’s full research abilty due to lack of, sorry, brain(not for being Arabs, but for being without sufficient expertise).
2) Iraq, with its oil reservses, needs nuclear energy for peace uses just as much as I need more foreign workers with all the unemployment we have here.
3) France offered them a new nuclear fuel called the “karamel” that could have been used to nearly all of the uses of the uranium (I hope I spell it right), except for the use of production of nuclear weapons.
Anyway, it was clear that Iraq was about to use this reactor not only for research.
Many in this forum would agree with me about this, BTW.

I’m tired of my tax dollars going to giving away free jets to people that don’t need them.

Oh, poor baby.
As if you are so missing them:rolleyes:
I wish we really didn’t need them, but with you guys letting falks like the Iranians have WMDs, you can’t say we don’t need to defend our selfs.
May I also remind you that your own people are the ones who gain from these “sells” to Israel. It gives your people thousands of work places.
The fact that we may don’t like the radar isn’t your problem.
Besides, my personal opinion is that this all thing is a show jsut to put some pressure on the US.
If they really wanted a good Israeli radar for the Sufa they would take the El- M/2035, the more advanced version that was intended for the Lavi. Funny though that we consider installing radars that were developed for the Lavi in the 80s and 90s on a plane for the 00s.
BTW, that reminded me how afraid you were when we worked on the Lavi about the fact that you will loss a lot of work places and money, so don’t bitch now about how you “waste my tax dollars”.

And Iran faced the very modern and well-equipped IrAF that had top of the line French and Russian equipment. If they had not had the F-4D/E/RFs their early counter air operations at the start of the war would probably not have gone off so well.

The Iraqi Air Force was nothing, and it proved it by being nothing at GW1. The truth is that the Iraqi Air Force dominated the skies over Iran only because of the fact that most of the Iranian Air Force’s jet fighters didn’t leave the ground because they didn’t had spare parts. Also, the Iranian Air Force of 1981 wasn’t the Iranian Air Force of 1976. Many air force commanders and pilots were murdered by the new regime and the air force lost of its experties. It took them quite a while to return to what they were is the past, but it will also never be the same Air Force of the Shah. Take for example their attempt to destroy the Iraqi nuclear reactor Osirak with thier F-4s. If only they had the right men that would knew how it should really be attacked in order to destroy it they could have done it, but instead their F-4s only skretched it, while we, with lighter F-16As, completely did it out.

The IRIAF faced far more modern equipment in terms of enemy opposition (Mirage F-1EQs, MiG-25P/PDs and MiG-29As) then the IDF/AF did with the F-4D/E/RFs.

You can look at some very long-range ops the IRIAF launched during the war as well. The IRIAF used the F-4D/E/RF for air defense, escorts, long-range strike, anti shipping, close air support, battlefield interdiction, and recce.

I would say the IRIAF F-4D/E/RFs got a much better work out then the IDF/AF ones did

How about MiG-21s (also flew by Soviet pilots) MiG-17s, and other variants of SUs and MiGs, that were the Soviet top of the line at the time?
We did all of these missions and probably more, and you know it.
What you should see is this: The only multi rule fighter plane in the world that Israel could buy then was the F-4 from the US, and it happen to be an excellent fighter. But we didn’t buy it because we had the choice. We needed it badly, while other air forces had thier alternatives (Iran for example could easily buy Soviet).

They are flyable:)