Why no buy from Israel?
We got for you F-4s, Kfirs, Bell-212s, Hawkeyes, C-130s, MD-500Ds and Skyhawks!
All that and a lot more in the SIBAT website (you better search the entire site, there are some cool thing there;) ):
http://www.sibat.mod.gov.il

I saw a drawing of it from about 1990 and it looked nearly (if not completely) the same as today.
If you really need it I can look for it…

what about Spitfire during WW2 for England Erez

and well , let’s say , the Mirage III for….. Israel

The Mirage was some time before the F-4, and not only that it wasn’t in great quantity, it couldn’t do all what the Kurnass did.
Well, when I’m wrong I’m wrong… I forgot about the Battle Of Britain.

Erez,

If you think the Iran-Iraq war was nothing then you are sorely mistaken. It’s one of the longer wars in recent history. Thousands of people died, and the air operations were huge.

The F-4, as Arthur pointed out, was the backbone of the IRIAF at the time with the F-14 and F-5 playing splendid supporting roles.

While F-5’s were tasked with light ground attack and some air-to-air combat, F-14’s were used solely for air-to-air and Phantoms, as with Israel and the United States, did it all. Air-to-air, anti-ship, CAS, long-range strike, recon, etc.

It would be an interesting debate on which country needed the Phantom the most though…or rather made the most of all its uses.

Well I know it was a long and hard battle. But when it comes to comparisions, you can’t really compare the 1973 war to any other war. It was a full scale war with our entire region against us and with full soviet supports, while we were unprepared, surrounded, surprised and under powered. If it wasn’t for the Phantom that bombed the Arab forces and shut down many fighter jets, Israel would probably lose the war.

What are the chances that Israel will design their own plane again in the future?

A fighter plane? in one word : slim:(
We do develop other planes and UAVs.

anyway if ever Israel wanted to get rid of USA , they’d be forced
to design their own to reduce cost.

imo they should design atleast a light fighter to not let the
skills wither away…who knows how relations will shift in the
future.

usa & india look to be the only ones solidly with israel at present….the rest make the right ‘noises’ but dont have a real strategic convergence.

The prblem is that the Israeli Air Force doesn’t need a light weight fighter. The Lavi started its life as one, but the Air Force ordered the engine to be changed from the GE F404 to the PW1120 and to enlarge the whole plane.
Right now, we don’t need to “get rid” of the US, and I hope we will never have to, though we need much more freedom than we have today.
Personally, I think the Israeli Air Force should buy the Tejas!:D

Sorry !!! I know that the Arye and the Kfir are not Mirage-deviates … I meant the Mirage-deviates (Nesher, Kfir, …) then the indigenous Arye-project and final the Lavi !!

Oh, ok;)

Any thoughts about the layout ???? …. single or twin engine ??, delta-canard-configuration, …. more related to air-to-air or air-to-ground ????

A few single-engined single-rule variants of the same plane, each have a special job, one for bombing, one for air defence and one for electronic warfare, each cost about 7 million dollars. The logic was to build a few cheap planes instead of expansive multi-rule fighter. No data on structure.
You must remember that it was never confirmed.

Any pictures !?! …. I thought the Nammer was a proposed improved Kfir with a GE F-404 !!! (like Your Kfir-2000)

That’s right. Yesterday I learned that it took off in the 21th of March 1991. Photos never published:(
As far as I know, it too was never confirmed, but you can probably see its legacy in the Kfir-2000, which is in many ways an F404-less Nammer.

Sounds very interesting !!! The only picture I know is the one below …. can You PLEASE post the other one !!??

Sure. I don’t want anyone to make a bad use of them (Oh look, an XXJ!!! and stuff like that) so I prefer sending it to your mail, so please write your email address.
Don’t know about the big Kfir’s engines. They were probably F100s (the PW1120 didn’t even exist at that time). BTW, a mock-up of the Arye’s cockpit was built. No one took photos of it and it was later destroyed, but people that worked on it said that it resembled the F-16A’s cockpit (and that was the late 70s, and when we didn’t have F-16s).
Also, yesterday I realized that the IAI has been developing for the past three years a new crago plane called the IAI AirTruck. And this was confirmed (-::cool:

The Lavi is a Mirage derivate? man, you gotta get glasses:D
The Lavi was the last fighter plane that was designed in Israel.
A word about a new plane, called the “Shachal” has been heard in the early 90s, but it was never confirmed.
After that, the only fighters that were designed in Israel are only my fictional concepts 😀
A new Mirage derivate is the Nammer, that took off in 91.
BTW, I talked to the reporter that wrote the article about the Arye, and he sent me a few pictures of two Arye designs, one is an enlarged two-enginend Kfir and the other is the one you saw in the comuter generated picture I uploaded here. The rest of the Arye concepts (about 40) remained classified, and the only other Arye concept we know of is the Lavi;)

Well okay, the F-4 had action in other air forces, but I think it did its best in the Israeli Air Force.

Can someone please explain the special features of these aircraft for once? For example, what are all those extra bumps?

Sure.
They contain both a special **** with **** and a whole lot of ***s with a few more *******s:D

But you can be sure to expect a private message if i’ll be coming over

Sure;)

Is she already gone from the inventory completely?
(prays that Erez doesn’t see this post……..don’t feel like getting into another argument with him again)

PII, why are you so afraid of me?:(
Anyhow, as you know my highschool is close as hell to Tel-Nof (just to make my point – from a certain hill I can see them taxing on the runway), and I see them from a distance of about 50 meters while they are flying, and I can tell you one thing: The Kurnass is flying and beautiful that is. How long will it fly? **********:D, no, really, because of the delays with the F-16I and the fact that the production of the 102 aircraft should last until 2008, I have to assume there isn’t that much time, but it’s still something.
I promise I’ll upload some pictures of it I took a while ago. I had to take only “clean” shots of it, without weapons and such.
I can also say that not all the Kurnass’ that are flying are Kurnass-2000. In some of them a refueling probe is clearly visible (which means = Kurnass-2000) and in some not.
In other words – you don’t have to have information from your cousin to see that the Kurnass is flying – you just got to have eyes…
BTW, last week the Kurnass was on the Israeli children channel’s “news”. There were some great videos of it (of course, they had to mix it up with some Skyhawks) and since it was related to children who are living in a base, their father, the squadron commander, showed them the cockpit of the Kurnass-2000. No need to say how great it was.