Well how would you like it if your landlord took away half of your lawn and gave it to someone who decided to walk over there and start standing around on said lawn?

If that someone was the former owner of the lawn and considered it its home, well I guess I’d just have to share it with him.
They didn’t figure it out in ’47, they didn’t figure it out in 2006.

Funny, I thought they already had one established back in ’47…

Well, the partition plan was rejected by the Palestinians back in ’47. The Oslo process, at least initially, was not.

You think they haven’t tried? How can they developt a economical infranstructure if Israel is building walls around them, denying palestinians basic human rights by restricting their moving between the different separate areas? Or denying them to work in Israel? Palestinians aren’t moarning without reason…

You want my enlighment…Stop the opression, stop building new settlements, tear down the old ones, TEAR DOWN THE WALLS!!! If giving more of your precious land is too much, then start treating palestinains as normal humas, give them equal rights as jews have.

The ball is in the biggerones lap. Israel have coused the whole proplem, they are responsiple for sorting it out. Only way to get rid of the terrorism is provide meaningfull living conditions to palestinians and they cannot do it under the current opression.

Do you know when the Palestinians were closest to getting their own state? in the Oslo process. During the peace process, when everything seemed bright for us and them, there were no walls, they worked in Israel by tens of thousands, they had a very large freedom of movement and some of their land was under their direct civilian and security control. There were international investments, joint industrial projects with Israel and what’s not. It was their choice to threw all of that in our face and switch from peace making to terrorism. Arafat did it on purpose – he probably didn’t mean to create a second Intifada, but he thought that he could use the terror tool for a short while to pressure Israel to give up on more land within the peace process. The Intifida and the sorry condition they are is the responsibility of them and their leaders. Sure, Israel made things much worst for them – but when it comes to the protection of its citizens, Israel is more than willing to put checkpoints in their roads, build walls around them and blow up terrorists. These things don’t help them, but they brought it on themselves.

Normal palestinians, normal people…you know, the vast majority of worlds population…

The most weirdest thing in this and many other situation is that somehow Israel and those supporting it fails to see the reasons behind acts. When rats keeps constantly invading your house, you wont gain nothing just by focusing on traps…You need to know why the rats are coming and make the neccerical adjustments in order to fix the proplem permanetly…So when palestinians choose Hamas and various organisations makes a terrorist attacks agaisnt Israel, you gain nothing by just hitting back and revenge it to the palestinian civils. You need to see the proplems core and fix the situation and conditions that causes terrorism…Look in the mirror and admitt your wrongdoings and make the best of fixing it…you might get suprized what effects it have in the terrorism field…

Tell me then, what can be done that hasn’t been tried (and failed) before with the Palestinians?
The truth is that it’s time for the Palestinians to take responsiblity over their lives, instead of blaming Israel and the West for all of their problems. It’s time for them to stop the terror, develop an economic infrastructure and take control of their live. Playing the victim got them nowhere – absolutely nowhere. No state, no money, no happiness. Every time Israel or someone alse tried to help them, for example with the creation of a real economy, they threw it in our face, and went back for donations.

Perhaps you can enlighten us about some steps no one has tried with them before that could improve their lives.

Weren’t Sin fein a political wing of the good old IRA? :confused:

The bottom line is that peaople like you (and Israel) fail to see that the normal palestinians just want to live normal life…failing to provide it is the reason why there is aggression…You see after all your so belowed “freedom” will surpass terrorism…but you actually need to give it (occupation isen’t one) other than just talk….

So in group of five, there are one terrorist, and four civilians…to take the terrorist out which is your weapon to choose?? I’d go for sniper…but apparently you guys prefer missiles…why not? Those civilians might just get upsetted when withnessing a murder right in they eyes…better to whipe them out too, so that no new potential terrorist are left… 😉

Who are those ‘normal’ Palestinians? the fact remains that only recently the Palestinian Authority has had what was probably the most democratic elections in the Arab world, and most of the Palestinians elected a a terror organization (SOC might say, a political party with a military branch – kind of reminds me the Nazi party) whose stated goal was/remains for now the destruction of Israel.
Now, we aren’t blind. We know that many Palestinians elected them because they were sick and tired of the corruption in Fatah, and not because they are very sympathetic of Hamas. Ok, so we understand that – but they still knew that they were electing an organization which will continue the Intifada and won’t work in the direction of peace, so why should we give a damn? the corruption is their internal problem, while the consequences of Hamas’ elections do concern us. The fact still remains that they got a terror organization as their government – and that’s unacceptable.
If Israel and the world need to do something is help Abu Mazzen to gain some real power. The power to arrest terrorists, the power to stop the everyday rocket attacks on Israel and the power to maintain order in the PA. Hamas is not the Palestinians’ way to their own country.

About your civilians issue, Israel knows where its targets are for most of the time, but only acts when there is a minimum chance of hurting civilians.
Israel usually prefers to arrest members of terror organization, mostly because of the intelligence they could provide, but when that is not needed, yes, missiles are sometimes the way. The terrorists knowingly use unarmed civilians to hid among – why don’t you attack their cynical use of their fellow Palestinians an human shields?

Üntermensch? Did I read üntermensch here? 😮

Because of their actions, not their race.

What is the point in having a nuclear energy programme that is totally dependent on the whims of others? What good is a nuclear power plant that can’t produce electricity because the nuclear fuel that needs to be imported is under embargo?

The west is saying, give up this programme, and in turn, we will give you a piece of the programme, which is totally unless on its own, and which you would have developed by yourself anyways. How could anyone turn down such a generous offer? :rolleyes:

Iran’s refusal of the west’s offer is perfectly understandable and logical. Most rational people is Iran’s position would not accept such pointless offers either, because these offers are less the worthless. The west is trying to get something for nothing here, and you are suprised when it doesn’t work?

When the entire world recognized their full right to use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, there is absolutely no reason why should anyone place an embargo over them, as long as they really do just that. Iran knows that, the West knows that, Israel knows that. No one will try to embargo/attack them at any way. If the US will embargo them for some odd reason, the Europeans/Russians will still be helping them. The piece of the program that the West is willing to give Iran is exactly the piece that they officially want – civilian nuclear energy. If they refuse to that, clearly they got something to hide, and it’s not that hard to see.

The most, and only damning statement on there seems to have been made by an advisor. I’m not 100% sure what exact role Iranian presidential advisors perform, but if it anything like their counterparts in the rest of the world, then his statement is hardly an example of offical policy.

Where and when exactly have Iran offically threatened to wipe Israel ‘off the map’? You are treating speeches strictly meant for internal consumption as if they were offical mission statements for the government. Need we dig up some gaffs Bush have made at private dinners to realise that things said at such events need to be taken with a giant grain of salt?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46EE-A4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm
Although this his has been said in Iran, it was said in an international conference called “The world without Zionism“, where people from all over the world participated – so it’s not much of an internal speech.
Iran’s official policy towards Israel doesn’t recognize its existance and/or right to exist – which isn’t much better.

And how does that address my question? Merely repeating yourself does not lend your argument any more weight.

You claimed that Israel didn’t use nukes in 1973 because it knew it could prevail conventionally – which isn’t true. As I said, in the early days of the war, Israel thought it couldn’t win conventionally.

I would call that a very optimistic assessment. But that hardly changes the original point – why does Israel need nukes if it will never ever use them and it is effectively telling everyone as much?

Your point being? Militarily, Israel is head and shoulders ahead of any one of its neighbours conventionally, and have been so for decades. Where is this overwhelming conventional threat that need nuclear weapons to redress?

Israel is ahead of the Arab world in quality – not quantity. Even when excluding Jordan and Egypt out of the title of “hostile neighbours”, there are still many other nations there that won’t recognize Israel’s right to exist. Israel’s nuclear ability is meant for deterrence – deterrence against a possible attack by an Arab coalition against it, because while on the paper it seems to be able to deal with a number of invading forces at the same time, we have almost failed to do this before, and there’s always a chance of failure in the future – so nobody is willing to take that chance. If Israel will be invaded like this in the future, the invaders will have to take the chance of having their capital cities destroyed.

.

Every ‘solution’ so far offered involves some vital element of the nuclear programme being supplied by another nation, and so making Iran suseptable to sanctions and embargos. And those same ‘intelligence’ bodies also said Saddam had WMD.

If Iran truly wanted nuclear energy, it could have got it. No one undermines Iran’s right for nuclear energy. Their refusal to accept the very thing they supposedly ask is in itself worrying.

And when did Iran threaten to exterminate Israel? Did any Iranian offical EVER say that Iran will exterminate Israel?

Some of their official statements are here:
http://www.memri.org/iran.html
Otherwise, Google is your friend.

Ha, and the fact that Israel was able to proveil conventionaly had nothing to do with the decision not to resort to nukes. How gullable do you take everyone for? :rolleyes:

Why would Israel need nukes at all if it will never ever use them? :rolleyes:

Israel was on the brink of defeat. Especially in the early days of the war, most Israeli officials didn’t believe Israel’s ability to win the war conventionally.

And you have sources to back this up? Because I have never seen anything that suggests Israel have nuclear weapons anywhere near that early.

Well, according to Global Security, the reactor in Dimona has been active since 1964. The way from that to a bomb is short. So, let’s say that Israel seems to have nuclear weapons for about 40 years.

Thats a good one. 😀 Balance…haha. So what overwhelming superiority does the ‘Arab side’ have conventionally that require Israeli nuclear weapons to balance?

Look at the Middle East map and see for yourself:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/MiddleEast.png

.