sheytanelkebirThe US are saying that the “deliveries of F16s are on schedule” and the first 2 will be sent to Iraq in September.
Lets wait and see.
The MOB of the F16s (Balad and Ali AB are both under government control).
Meanwhile, Belarus has denied that it sold any jets to Iraq. Yet the Iraqi defence committee said that the first of 10 “sukhoi” jets from Russia arrived in Iraq today, with more “close support jets” from Belarus expected in the next few days.
sheytanelkebira question.
Its more than likely that F16-IQ will never be delivered to Iraq.
Would the US give us a refund or will they take the money and run?
We really could use that money just about now to buy ACTUAL USEFUL WARPLANES that we could ACTUALLY USE.
sheytanelkebirIt’s lasted over 90 years so far. Plenty of states have almost split in that time, but ended up staying together & becoming stable. There’s a big one in North America, for example.
Its not about “how long” a country has been “together”… you can’t simply take “examples” which are different and try and fit them to another country. Each situation is quite unique.
The “closest” similarity in Iraq is to the old Apartheid South Africa. You can think of this “uprising” as the White Minority trying to “take what is theirs” back from the black majority. From the perspective of the “Sunni Arab” minority its a zero-sum game… “equality” with the “southerners” meant 75% drop in income for them… The “old” way was “fair” and “balanced” (20% of population having 100% of control and 80% of all wealth)… they, their parents and grandparents grew up with that “normal” situation, it is simply unfathomable for them to “accept” the fall from grace. This means the only “solution” from the perspective of the southerners is to break away. Steps in this direction are already happening (state funding for provinces not under Iraqi rule have been stopped as of yesterday).
sheytanelkebirmore accurately it should be “some terrorist propaganda pics”.
sheytanelkebirwell this is a surprise! Didn’t think FMS would still be awarding contracts to Iraq at this point in time.
Rapiscan Systems, Inc., Torrance, California, was awarded a $102,521,440 foreign military sales contract with options for 80 Rapiscan Eagle M60’s and contractor logistics support to Iraq. Work will be performed in Torrance, California, and Iraq with an estimated completion date of June 19, 2016. One bid was solicited and one received. Fiscal 2010 other procurement (Army) funds in the amount of $102,521,440 are being obligated at the time of the award. Army Contracting Command, Natick, Massachusetts, is the contracting activity (W911QY-14-C-0081).
http://www.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=5312
sheytanelkebirWell, just a note for onlookers, sheytankebir means “the great satan”. He is a shia and connected to the Iraqi military and represents something of a Baghdad Bob character providing “news”.
I am an atheist. I have no connection to the Iraqi military or anything of the sort. The only iraqi government institution I ever worked for was the Ministry of Oil.
The Mahdi army started genocide in Baghdad, the moment the US stepped in. You can ask the Americans about that. The. Shia practice of “taqiya” can only go so far as to hide info in this era.
JAM was involved in ethnic cleansing in Baghdad, just like the sunni arab terror groups.
The shiite govt of Maliki has been a sectarian and hateful govt oppressing Sunnis for a long time. Again, verify via third party sources. Any resistance to them is dubbed as terrorism via taqiya.
-The minister of Defence is Sunni arab
-The Army commander is Sunni arab
-The head of Parliament is Sunni arab
-1/3rd of the ministers in government are sunni arabs
-No law passes without sunni-arabs and kurds agreeing (which is why Iraq’s governance has been paralysed).
The ISF has been commanded largely by shiites. And with large, majority dominant ahia components. “Sheytankebir” is foing his taqiya by trying to windowdress all this and blame it on Sunnis and Kurds (between Kurds are also sunnis and together sunnis make up a very big proportion – only by showing sunnis separately can they game you into their “majority”).
-17% Sunni Kurd
-20% Sunni Arab
is the overall population.
but the “units” in Mosul / Kirkuk were 90% + Sunni and Kurdish. The small number of shias were abandoned left right and centre and had to fight their way out. And the reason for that?
Due to “national reconciliation” needs, the Mayor of Ninawa and the US had pressured the Iraqis for years to incorporate Sunni Arabs and Kurds in the military and especially in Sunni Arab regions so the local populace won’t have to feel disgusted by the sight of a “southern iraqi”. They got that, but still were disgusted since maybe 1 in 10 of the soldiers were still “shroogis” (sunni-arab derogatory term for a southern Iraqi).
The problem is that the northern/western populace of Iraq has never accepted the fact that its a minority within Iraq. The attitude of the “muslim” is that its “all or everything”… they were never interested in “sharing” a country with an “inferior” populace of “shroog” and especially galling was having a “shroogi” head of state.
So it is inevitable that the US could not “force” this “unity” to go on forever. Neither can the “Honourable Sunni Arabs” enforce their rule over the South, nor can the shroog enforce their rule over them… and we don’t want to either! It just costs us billions upon billions from OUR money that we GIVE to them in Salaries and infrastructure… that they HATE us for.
Sheytankebir, so aptly named, amd his taqiyya will lie like baghdad bob, to suit his ends.
oh brother. :very_drunk:
To clarify a few of points – Baiji and tal afar are most certainly under ISIS. The shiite soldiers, oppressors and corrupt to the core, ran for their lives like headlesa chicken. The ones caught were given a befitting slaughter. Meanwhile, over 100,000 shiites in and around Baghdad ****ting in their shiite pants over less than 10,000 lightly armed, pickup truck driving soldiers.
oh dear. Where have you been reading your news? are we going to see you in an ISIS video soon?
You have seen the videos of the IA in Tel Afar haven’t you? Or the fact that the terrorists don’t have a single image inside the refinery… or is this like the “blackhawk helicopters” and “abrams tanks” they captured? 😉
The Kurds tried to help them but they are singularly ungrateful and trecherous and killed a bunch of Kurds out of spite. Still the Kurds are still helping in the eastern hinterland around jalula and in diyala in general. Without this Kurdish help, they would be much worse off, yet, these 100,000s of cowards with the best tech there, billions of worth of equipment and training and target aquisition and recon by US, plus large number of reinforcements from Iran’s best troops, are ****ting their shiite pants sitting in Baghad, begging for help to save them.
huh? You are truly magnificently wrong and simply haven’t got the slightest clue!
-Kurds have only expanded areas for their own control… helping only themselves and not engaging against the terrorists.
-Terrorists also have their “own” areas they expanded into… so they didn’t clash with each other.
-“Loyal Iraqis” (who didn’t turn coat) fought, and continue to fight valiantly and beating back the terrorists… as we speak. 😉 lets revisit this thread sometime in the future.
That should say something.
I think it tells us that you should expand your horizons a bit.
sheytanelkebirWhat I find staggering is just how much the regular army has folded. My earlier confidence that they would get themselves sorted is rather less now then a few days ago. Apparently Iran has dispatched a general to help coordinate the Iraqi army which in itself is a rather shocking indictment of the state of the Iraqi general staff.
all that happened is that the baathis and terrorists that we were forced to incorporate in the army/police by the US as part of the “reconciliation” showed their true face and turned coat.
Now that those scum are “out”… we have the “loyal” forces fighting… e.g. pockets of resistance still hold out against the odds, army aviation is taking the fight to the terrorists and the army has mobilised with volunteers for facilities protection units to protect sites whilst the army can be used for offensive work… however this “fight” is for the breakup of Iraq, so I don’t foresee Iraq bothering to even take “mosul” and other cities that sided with the terrorists.
sheytanelkebirJust a word of caution, you may be getting biased news. Daish aka ISIL are being seen as the good guys by the people and they are acting like it. A woman from Mosul writes that after many years she can sleep in peace. Raqqa’s streets are kept beautifully clean.
maslawis are indeed pro isis. and they should stay under ISIS rule, but without any money from the southern oil money. deal?
raqqa is in syria not iraq.
The moment the Americans “liberated” Iraq, the Mahdi Army and other shiite thugs started turning a Sunni majority Baghdad into predominantly shiite. They have continued those genocidal policies to the extent that baghdad and many other places now barely have sunnis left.
Baghdad was not majority sunni. Most of the terrorism in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq were conducted by sunni-arabs.
Daish seems to be the only language these ppl understand. I disagree with Sunni theology and am not a Sunni, I even used to respect and suport Hizbollah, but the truth is now clear to me, God Willing and I support Daish, (who I had formerly considered a terrorist and evil group and widely condemned them).
Do you realise that the majority of Iraq’s populace is SHIA? And ISIS has openly said that they will kill every single one of them as part of their core “manifesto”. But you seem to agree with it with the words above… seems you are a candidate to become another daeshi terrorist.
Always remember that the news is manufactured
indeed, always remember that your religion is manufactured.
sheytanelkebirThe only reason Maliki still has the semblance of a cordial relationship with the Kurds is because the Kurds have better soldiers and more of them. As for the equipment, what were the Kurds supposed to do? Leave it there for ISIS after the Iraqi army ran away? As you said, they did the sensible thing any I’ll believe the Kurds are conspiring with ISIS when I see the proof.
kurdish officers turning coat in mosul / kirkuk and giving orders to the IA units to abandon weapons and leave.
All the “turncoat” officers ending up in Erbil.
peshmarga “invading” the 12th ID HQ
Izzat al duri going on TV and saying that he will fight against the “shia safawis” and protect the Kurds and their right to have Kirkuk and other areas.
ISIS spokesman saying he won’t fight against kurds as they are not his enemy
Kurds sweeping through and taking all the areas they “wanted” whilst ISIS steer clear of the areas that the Kurds “want”.
and all of this happens a few days after the national election results show that maliki has a stronger position than before in parliament….
sheytanelkebirWeeeelllll . . . there’s an old principle that ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’. Maliki has done all he can to turn every Sunni Arab in Iraq into his enemy. Awakening militias have been disbanded instead of integrated, Sunnis purged from positions of responsibility. Instead of seeking allies among Sunnis, he’s treated them all as enemies. So where do they turn?
-those awakening were put into the army and police and then turned coat in mosul/kirkuk.
-The minister of defence, the land forces commander, 30% of the ministers are all sunni arabs… Sunni arabs and kurds have consistently blocked all attempts at parliamentary governance in Iraq (including blocking the passing of Iraq’s budget!).
If you were a Sunni in the Iraqi army, would you be keen on fighting to keep Maliki in power? It’s depressing that instead of recognising his mistake & trying to make good, Maliki is compounding the error. There must be many who loathe ISIS, but they need to be treated decently by Baghdad to keep them on side, not all tarred with the same brush.
The 1st and 7th ID in Anbar are all Sunnis and are all fighting for Iraq against ISIS,
As for the Kurds – I reckon they’re being opportunist. Yes, they took over bases (& equipment) & towns abandoned by the Iraqi army, but they’re fighting ISIS, not allied to it. ISIS wants the oilfields, & so do the Kurds. Be sensible: you don’t want to fight the Kurds as well as ISIS.
They are NOT fighting ISIS… (some small skirmishes here and there that are “resolved” quickly).
Izzat Al Duri AND ISIS have both come out and said they Support Kurdistan, and Kirkuk belongs to Kurdistan.
All the “turncoat” officers from the units that “melted away” in Mosul / Kirkuk were either maslawis or kurds… and they sought refuge in KRG after giving the orders to the units to drop their arms, abandon equipment and leave!
sheytanelkebirSheytanelkebir,
Just to be clear Daesh are the Saudi-financed Wahabhi fundamentalists known in the West as Al Qaeda, or its splinter groups like ISIS.
As you say this sectarian conflict has given rise to a de facto partition of Iraq into Sunni ISIS controlled parts of Iraq (& Syria) and Shia southern Iraq.
While the Kurds, who were persecuted under Saddam, have taken the opportunity to consolidate their own state with the recent capture of Kirkuk (will be interesting to see what headway they can make into Kurdish parts of Turkey 😉 ….what a payback).
You mentioned elsewhere that no Iraqi Bell 407s were captured (or rather that’s what it says on the MoD website)….how serious are the reports that an American UH-60 Blackhawk, several Kiowa helicopters and cargo planes stationed at Mosul Airport were captured…that’s why I asked if there were any pilots capable of flying them from amongst the locals who were once in Saddam’s forces?
Daesh is ISIS.
No helicopters or other aircraft have been captured. – if they did they’d parade them rather proudly as they have done with the few dozen decrepit humvees they did capture. (sadly they did capture a battery of M198s which they have used to bombard tel affar with).
Everything indicates that Daesh + Sunni Arabs in general had a “molotov ribbentrop” style agreement with the Kurds against Iraq… and thus you saw over 400 of the officers from the IA/National Police from Kirkuk / Ninawa giving order to abandon bases and then taking refuge in Erbil.
sheytanelkebirWould Mi-28NEs they received ( i think at least 13 by now) make any difference as opposed to using Mi-35Ms while attacking ISIS in your opinion. Other other than a much costlier loss of a toy in case of crash or shot down.
Is there any obvious advantage Mi-28 has over Mi-35M in this kind of war?
they have not received any Mi28Ne
sheytanelkebirIt will be interesting to see what “is” the future of the “former state of Iraq” and where and if those F16s ever get delivered.
If the “central / southern” Iraqi state (“sumer and akkad”) still has good relations with the US, then I’d expect they’ll receive the F16-IQ jets since they paid for it.
If the US refuses to send them to Iraq, then I’d expect them to be incorporated into the USAF inventory and the americans “pocket the money” as they’ve done with other third world countries that went through turmoil etc…
Would the US give the Kurds planes that Iraq paid for? Who knows… Right now the Kurds are playing out the result of their “Molotov Ribentropp” style agreement with the various ISIS/Baath groups in order to mutually grab bits of land from Iraq… so anything is possible!
I’d expect if the US does refuse to send the planes to “sumer and akkad” … the Russians and Chinese will take 100% of that market… the Russians have been airlifting more Atakas, Mi35Ms and other items since the Mosul crisis started and intensified training for Iraqis to bring them into service quicker. The US is still debating on whether to let the Iraqis have a few hellfires for their “cessnas”.
PS. the army in Mosul / Kirkuk which collapsed was manned with Maslawi officers / soldiers who “turned coat” and Kurdish officers and soldiers who took off with their equipment to hand it over to Kurdistan. The small number of southern soldiers were then surrounded and had to flee southwards any way they could.
Still in areas where the Maslawis and Kurds did not predominate the units, they held out valiantly, like in Husaiba where a group of 60 soldiers and 10 humvees held out their border post against terrorists until they ran out of ammo and were all killed (5 days!), and Baiji power station were a group of 250 Iraqi engineers and local guards are to this minute holding out against ISIS assaults by 200+ vehicles against them and are being resupplied by helos at night time with ammo and supplies.
Similarly in Samarra the ISIS and their sunni-arab allies singularly failed to take the town or any area around it and were repulsed in all their attacks.
In places like Tel Affar, the units of the army and border guards fought to the death, culminating in the battle in the central castle last night… the Peshmarga forces holding sinjar, were not attacked with a single bullet by ISIS on the other hand… and did not come to the aid of Tel Affar either.
sheytanelkebiryes. that has been the spelling on the gazelles since 2 years and they haven’t bothered correcting it 🙁
sheytanelkebirAnd then what?
Can the US deploy armed drones in those numbers over night?
Far better to deploy massive air support with the unarmed stuff that is no doubt overhead already.
And then what?
Daesh has popular support in the Sunni Arab heartland of Iraq. It will be very difficult if not impossible to reinforce “central” government control over those areas… so the only thing to do is try and weaken and contain them… starve them out, build buffer zones and kill them if they try to attack… its a VERY long game.
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