sheytanelkebirLOL. I liked the father ted bit 😉
In the great republic of Iraq we have 0 fighters, with 0 pilots flying 0 hours per year! 😀 and that is 100% accurate. 😀
I also agree about the new generation of simulators and advanced trainer aircraft to keep up proficiency without over abusing the “combat” airframes (nowadays even the richest countries no longer have a lot of airframes to throw about anymore)… France’s option may be the new “standard”.
sheytanelkebirThe Azerbaijan connection does sound plausible… it would be nice if journalists would be clearer with their interviews…
sheytanelkebirand…
http://vestnikkavkaza.net/news/politics/41539.html
Since they’ve already mentioned 30-40 Mi28NE and 6x Mi35M (not to mention their IA-407 scout helis, EC635 attack helis, and AH-1Z vipers) I honestly do not understand this…. its baffling! they want to operate one squadron of every single attack helicopter on earth? you may say that the “KA52” is for scout/attack… but they already have dedicated 30 IA-407 and 24 EC-635s for that role!
sheytanelkebirOn 5 June 2013, Iraqi Airways resumed flights from Baghdad to Copenhagen , Denmark.
On 10 June 2013, Iraqi Airways will begin flights from Baghdad to Ankara , Turkey.
sheytanelkebirMaorobaggio
It doesn’t matter about the demolishing of old structures! old structures all over Iraq are being demolished and replaced with new buildings! (those buildings are more than 30-40 years old and have been derelict and abandoned for more than 20 years)… what do they do with such structures in your part of the world?
my father in law served on Al waleed throughout the 1980s. there were no “underground shelters”
the pyramid shape buildings are dual use bunkers for personel, ammunition, food etc… its dug into the ground like that for natural cooling.
sheytanelkebirthe base is not demolished. just some old shelters. the site is in use by the Iraqi army, national police and border guards (see earlier pic).
reason for destroying the shelters? who knows? maybe they were no longer structurally sound? maybe the US wanted to make sure that Iraqis don’t have a secure forward operating air base vs Israel “just in case”…
sheytanelkebirUS destroyed the ability to operate fixed wing aircraft from Al Waleed AB for the obvious reason of making sure that in the future it’ll be difficult for the Iraqis to have a forward operating base against Israel. My hypothesis.
Bases are still in use again… by the army and border guards (see pics above).
sheytanelkebirwhat is your opinion? I really am dying to know! honestly, over the two threads you posted in about F14s / iran-iraq war (all from ACIG publications with information that has been disproved), I never truly understood what your thesis / hypothesis was?
sheytanelkebirThe Soviet Union and France were the main suppliers of the armed forces of Iraq during the war with Iran.
correct.
Iraq has never designed and built a large aircraft or high-performance
correct.
and therefore would not be able to modify itself as an aircraft IL 76 Candid AWACS aircraft.
rather presumptuous!
Thus it is evident in the similarities of the AWACS IL 76 ADNAN ( Baghdad II) in Iraq with the A 50 Mainstay AWACS of the Soviet Union that the Iraqis were supported by Soviet technicians to perform the conversion.
Conversion was done by IRAQI engineers from Salahuddin State Company (who had opened the first silicon foundry in the middle east in the 1970s, as well as manufacturing radars and some computers and telco equipment for military purposes since the 1970s)
subcontractors in Italy, France, USA and UK supplied equipment, no soviet involvement at all.
Probably Soviet and French technicians together with Iraqi technicians had been working to convert the IL 76 Candid into AWACS aircraft equipped with French radar Tiger G.
Tiger G (or salahuddin g was simply an “interim” radar for testing in the Baghdad-I it was not the final radar to be installed in the system which was never completed!).
As the image in the site above made by U.S. troops in Iraq in 2003 the Iraq’s Air Force had anti radar missile Kh 28 (AS 9 Kyle) for SEAD missions. Those missiles were operated in conjunction with the pods that tracking the radar emissions from the target and these could equip the Su 22 Fitter Iraq with missiles Kh 28. This website with this image about the Kh 28 missile has high quality informations about many issues.
ok
The missile Kh 58U which were the successor in the Soviet Union for the Kh 28 has never found out in the inventories of the Iraq’s Air Force , but also in many analyzes made during the first Gulf War, the missile Kh 58U were included in the inventory of Iraq.
at the time when propaganda made Iraq to be a fourth reich and not a mid-sized third world country!
In the Iran / Iraq conflict was a much more important than what is described in many cases. This war was the main cause of Kwaitt invasion of Iraq in 1990, which triggered the first Gulf War.
no it was not! stop reading iranian news! Iraq claimed kuwait ever since Iraq became an independent state in 1932. When the UK granted Kuwait independence in 1961, Iraq threatened to invade and the UK and arab states sent forces to Kuwait to prevent an Iraqi invasion. A second time also happened in 1970…
The catastrophic defeat of Iraq before the allies under U.S. leadership demoralized the military capabilities from Soviet Union which also contributes to the dissolution for this last one.
why? I mean pitting a mid-sized (20M population) country against the entire military of the US (and a couple dozen of its friends) was only ever going to have one result regardless if Iraqis had weapons made in novgorod or alabama!
The invasion of Iraq in 2003 by the U.S. and the UK were because of chemical weapons produced in Iraq during the war with Iran, and until today the credibility of the equipment used or produced by Russian are still affected by the catastrophic defeat of Iraq in the first Gulf War
what about the credibility of all the french weapons? or the 150+ US made helicopters Iraq operated? How about the credibility of the 300+ BVR capable fighters Iran had in 1980 that failed to stop the Iraqis with their MiG21s and SU20s?
The site below has some interesting information about the Iran / Iraq War.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_206.shtml
yes, yes… back to your bible.
sheytanelkebirAt the end of the Iran / Iraq were employed AWACS ( Airborne Warning And Control System) aircraft by Iraq.
no.
Those aircraft were conversions of IL 76 Candid into AWACS that had been designed as IL 76 Baghdad I and IL 76 Baghdad II by Iraq. Its aircraft had received French radars Tiger G.
The Baghdad-I was a ground surveillance aircraft (the one with the radar in rear ramp). The Baghdad 2 with rotodome was the AEW plane. there is also the airborne command post Boeing-727 which was used in the invasion of Kuwait in 1990… (but cooper/farzad didnt know about it so didn’t mention it).
The IL 76 Baghdad II were with the appearance of the Soviet Beriev A 50 Mainstay, and these last began had been entered in service on the Soviet Union around 1984.
now we go into the realm of fantasy again… didn’t take too long.
As the IL 76 Baghad I had not become effective
well the first prototype CRASHED! and the second one wasn’t working very well for its ground surveillance role with a normal scanning radar!
and the IL 76 Baghdad II probably were delivered in 1989 after the end of the war
No, These NEVER entered service with the Iraqi Airforce and remained registered with MIMI (Ministry of Industry and Military Industrialisation). The prototypes flew to Iran in 1991 (one was destroyed on the ground).
would be very likely that the Soviet Union sent some of own Bereiv A 50 Mainstay radar-equipped with Vega Shmel to support Iraq during the offensive of Iran in 1988 and testing its in a real conditions.
that is a lie 😀
With support from AWACS aircraft the Soviet Wilde Weasel MiG 25 BM were able to attack with Kh 58U and Kh 31P missiles against Iran’s radar stations without to be intercepted by F 14A Tomcat II once the AWACS given warning alert for the MiG 25BM
.
no such thing happened! just SU22 firing KH28 and Mirage F1s firing ARMATs…
With the radar stations damaged or destroyed the F 14A were restricted in patrols missions to replace the affected land radars and performing air defense missions to protect the main cities of the Iran.
with little effect I might add…
The MiG 25 RB in Iraq became more effective in reconnaissance and attack missions due to the support of AWACS that could warned them on the approaching of the F 14A Tomcat II.
No AWACS was EVER operational in Iraq.
The AWACS provided support to Interceptors MiG 25 PDS so that they were then able to operate with an escort to their own AWACs and perform missile launches of the AA 6 Acrid in long ranges without the need for support from land radar stations, thereby the MiG 25 PDS had become a real threat for the F 14A Tomcat even deep in the Iran territory.
what a load of nonsense.
With AWACS aircrafts Iraq began an air and land counter offensive against the Iran offensive and paralyzed this last one. In this final phase of the war the Iraq Air Force carried out many attack missions to support Iraq Army with little opposition from the Iran Air Force.
no, they just spent 1986-88 training several divisions of armoured forces (republican guard forces and regular army) in blitzkrieg combined arms operations) and let them loose on FAW.
Iraq would receive in 1988 the Su 24MK Fencer attack at any time and was converting a Boeing 727 on a platform of electronic jammer that would turn the attack missions of Iraq Air Force much more dangerous.
no SU24s operational in Iraq during the war. B727 was airborne Command Post and not a Jammer.
With all this Iran after the failure of his last offensive accepted a ceasefire with Iraq ending a nearly nine years of conflict that was started by Iraq.
it was just slightly LESS than 8 years (september 1980 to august 1988). It ended due to the exhaustion and collapse of Iran’s army and loss of THOUSANDS of pieces of armour in the spring summer offensives (mostly captured by Iraq)… nothing to do with MiG25s or F14s I’m afraid!
sheytanelkebirThe source that has been describing the operations of the MiG 25 RB / BM and the real missions from MiG 25 BM with missiles Kh 58U and Kh 31P could be found out in the books of the authors Tom Cooper and Bishop Fazard about the operation of the F 14A Tomcat II and F 4E Phantom II from Iran Air Force .
yes… going back to your “bible”.
The MiG 25 PD / RB Foxbat from Iraq and MIG 25 BM from Soviet Union had both suffered losses against the F 14A Tomcat II, which really limited the missions of the MiG 25 throughout the conflict.
but its such a secret that only cooper/farzad knew about it!
There are some rumors that the MiG 25 BM for the anti radar missions belonging to the Soviet Union did missions directed against the F 14A Tomcat II, not only against Iranian radar stations.
heard it from a taxi driver in tehran perhaps?
In these missions alleged in rumors but never has been confirmed by secure sources, a MiG 25 RB penetrated into Iranian airspace, supposedly on a mission to attack or recognition, while others MiG 25 BM had remained farthest in the rear. When the F 14A would be positioned to engage the MiG 25 RB and switch on the AWG 9 radar to fire the AIM 54A Phoenix against the MiG 25 RB, the MiG 25 BM through the electromagnetic emissions from radars of the F 14A could determined the position from these and then launched missiles Kh 58U that would guide against F 14A with this radar in active mode.
The anti radar missile Kh 58U when had been launched by a MIG 25 BM at high altitude of 20,000 m and Mach 2.2 speed could have a range exceeding 250 km, which was greater than the range of the Phoenix AIM 54A with 160 km. The primary mission of the Soviet MiG 25 BM in a war against NATO would be the shot down with anti radar missiles Kh 58U the AWACS E 3A Sentry from NATO.
yes of course it did.
Overall not much is known about the missions of the MiG 25 BM in Iraq between 1986 and 1987, but what is known is that one was shot down and another was damaged but crashed on landing resulting in total loss of aircraft, both were hit by AIM 54A missiles had been launched by F 14A Tomcat II.
because it never happened.
However the last time that the Soviet MiG 25 BM were sent to Iraq in 1988, at least one long range radar station equipped with Westinghouse ADS 4 radar belonging to Iran and located in Subashi was destroyed in June 1988 by missiles Kh 58U and Kh 31P had been launched by Mig 25 BM Foxbat.
Iraq used ARMAT missiles from Mirage F1.
sheytanelkebirIn addition to ample supply of weapons and training for Iraq, the Soviet Union had used the conflict to test new weapons such as MiG 25BM with anti radar missiles as Kh 58U and Kh 31P, whose were sent to Iraq and came under Soviet command in H 3 / Al-Walid AB , as that these fighters did several missions against radar stations from Iran, which were of U.S. origin.
not true at all.
Besides MiG 27 equipped with air-ground missiles Kh 29 T / L, which were extensively used against Iranian Offensive “Fatima Zahra”, which had penetrated deeply into the territory from Iraq in 1985.
no MiG27s in Iraq EVER.
In general there are many conflicting facts in this war that killed more than 1 million people and had destroyed hundreds of billions of dollars from infrastructure of the two countries.
only in ACIG land circa 2003-2010…
It is common to read about the fact that Iraq did not win the war that did not use their aircraft as it should. However when considering the losses of aircraft in Iraq and that this high investment made in building shelters for its Air Force during the war, already should demonstrates that the Iranian Air Force was not disabled as many believed during the war.
Iraq was building the shelters to protect aircraft from a future war with ISRAEL! Iraq operated MiG29s out of Al rasheed AB in Baghdad from steel hangars during the war with Iran, and no Iranian plane ever bothered to fly over and bomb it.
However, the Iran Air Force could not afford to replace their losses and get new equipment’s, thus it also used its air force to preserve it, avoiding the use of offensive missions that could cause many losses from Iran Air Force against Iraqi air defenses .
well they STARTED the war with 300+ BVR capable long range modern fighters vs Iraq having a grand total of 0 such aircraft 😉 (a little “fact” never mentioned on ACIG based publications).
The U.S. had no interest in confirming or disclose the victories of their equipment supplied to Iran, since the official version was that without U.S. assistance, would be without their equipment operating conditions, to avoid new restrictions on the part of Congress U.S. to supply new weapons on unstable countries, and if they eventually broke agreements with the U.S. since it could not be capable of maintaining the equipment without U.S.A.
oh the conspiracy 😀 The numbers tell the reality! Iraq lost just 150 fixed wing combat aircraft over a period of 8 years flying 100k+ sorties! no need for american propaganda!
A source very interesting with many confirmed details about the events of the war in Iran / Iraq conflict deeply analyzed the conflict are the books by journalist and writer Tom Cooper and Fazard Bishop, who detailed the operations of F 14A Tomcat II and F 4E Phamton II in service by the Iran Air Force.
yes, we thought you’d mention that work of fiction 😀
Regarding the lack of information about the Soviet Union from its MiG 25 Foxbat in Iraq even before the start of the conflict between Iran/Iraq and after the start of it, was to avoid criticism because the supply of advanced Western weapons to Iraq , once the Iraq was already very close to Moscow, and samples of those advanced weapons could be sent by the Soviet Union to review its technology, especially in the case of the Mirage F1 and their missiles and radars.
oh brother, where are thou?
sheytanelkebirThe contract signed in 1979 between Iraq and the Soviet Union comprised: 12 Mil Mi 25 Hind, 10 II-76, An12 24, 48 Su 22MK3, 104 MiG 23, 90 MiG 21, 1000 SAM missiles (50 batteries of SA 2, SA 3 SA 6) and especially 24 MiG 25.The Iraq had the greatest interest in the MiG 25 Foxbat due the threat represented by F 14A TomcatII from Iran.
the above numbers are completely FALSE!
Iraq had accepted the aircraft systems were standard less advanced when compared by Soviet pattern, and the number of Soviet military advisers military were incremented from 6,000 to 18,000 advisers, and at this time of the effective from Iraqi Air Force had 14,000 persons.
Iraqi Airforce was about 30,000 personel… number of “foreigners” a few hundred, mostly INDIANS.
Another concession had been obtained by the Moscow was the control of the Shoibiah Air Base, where they placed: 16 MiG 21MF, 20 MiG 23 and 24 MiG 25. The purpose of the location of the base was to surveillance the ships over the Persian Gulf and especially from US Navy Fleet .
It is ShUAibah… once again you’re using the incorrect IRANIAN spelling for Iraqi place names that gives away your bias 😉 be more careful 😉
After the attack of September 22 by 4 F4E Phantom from Iran, Iran attacked again Shoibiah base and severely damaged it. After this attack the Russians had moved to H3/Al-Wallid in western Iraq with its MiG 25 to avoid new attacks from Iran.
already dealt with this lie in the previous post.
The interceptor MiG 25 P Foxbat were heavily dependent from Ground Control Interception to carry out their missions. The GCI had to provide all data for this mission and the GCI were equipped with radars and communications equipment for the long-range to be able to accomplish its MiG 25 missions .
In case of GCI had been damaged, but specifically its radar and communications antennas, the MiG 25P and even in some cases MiG 25RB could not accomplish its missions.
ok
If you were the CEO (commander in chief) of the Iranian Air Force, in preparation for an massive attack that would be in the next day, which targets would you chosen ?
A) a supposed anti ship missile system;
B) a command and control system dedicated from interception missions for the MiG 25 fighters that were most powerful air threat in the Iraq territory, which would represent a major threat to Iranian offensive in the next day;In war the first casualty is always the truth.
There were no MiG25s in Iraq to attack. Iran simply did not have the capability to disable Iraqi GCI system.
sheytanelkebirThe Sky Hawk program began in 1986 during the Iran / Iraq was intended to equip the F 14A Tomcat II with the Iranians missiles MIM 23 Hawk that were originally operated as SAM (Superfice Air Missile). The purpose is to equip the F 14A with a SAM missile like the MIM 23 Hawk were because Iran had been need to find a replacement for the AIM 54A Phoenix.
Once the number this missile in the inventory had been reduced by the war, and how the AIM 7E Sparrow weren’t able to intercept at MiG 25 Foxbat, the alternative was to adapt the MIM 23 Hawk to be released by F 14A Tomcat II, once the MIM 23 Hawk had a much greater range than when compared to the release of land as SAM . This fact shows how Iran considered a high threat from MiG 25 RB / P Foxbat.
it was just a “show project” for the mullahs, nothing more nothing less… there are plenty more such “show” projects the iranians continue to do, mostly for internal propaganda purposes unrelated to military capability nor any “threats”…
On October 3 of the 1978 an MiG 25RB from Soviet Union was trying to enter into Iran but was blocked by F 14A Tomcat II from Iran that keep this intruder locked in their radar even when MiG 25RB engaged its own jamming system but this could not jamming the radars AWG 9 from F 14A Tomcat. If F 14A had received permission to launch the AIM 54 missiles the MIG 25RB had been intercepted. After this episode, the MIG 25 RB’s from Soviet Union did not invaded the Iran until the beginning of the Iran/Iraq War.
which is strange as how the iraqi “inferior” planes were flying thousands of sorties into Iran just a couple of years later without being troubled by any of these F14s…
The purchase of the F14A Tomcat II were motivated too by the introduction into service of the MiG 25 and MiG 23 Foxbat by the Soviet Union, once during the 70 years the greatest threat to Iran it was with the Soviet Union due by the alignment of Iran with the U.S.A.
eh… the shah just wanted some toys… the americans took his cash willingly, knowing that without the US support they wouldn’t be able to make much real use of it… and they were right. only risk would have been if they passed the technology onto USSR…
On 22 September 1980 to 14:00hrs the Iran Air Force attacked the air base Shoibah from Iraq ,
It is ShUAibah… you are using the INCORRECT Iranian spelling… that gives away the nationality of the source of your information 😉 (the Iranians on ACIG namely :D)
after only two hour after the air offensive from Iraq. This base had been equipped with 24 MiG 25, and only 04 of these were under Iraqi command, the others were under the control of Soviet Union.
The above is a lie. There were 0 MiG25s, and 0 “foreign owned” fighters in Iraq. Also the MiG25 NEVER EVER operated from Shuaibah even after it WAS inducted into service…
This was the first attack against the Iraqu by the Iran Air Force and was just at the base of the MiG 25 which shows the threat that were represented by the MiG 25.
the fact that the preceding sentence was complete fiction… we can dismiss the above hypothesis 😉
From August 1982 the MiG 25 RB had started its first offensive against the oil facility in the Kark Island.
No.
In the face of the offensive the F 14A TomcatII went keeping in 24-hour patrols over Tehran from the month of September after several attacks with loss of life among the civilian population of the Iran. On September 16 was shot down the first MiG 25 RB while he was in the approach route for Kark Island by AIM 54A Phoenix missile launched from an F 14A.
ok
Until the end of the war Iran had to face the MiG 25, on three different occasions since 1987 the Soviet Union had sent the MiG 25 BM which were designed to attack radar stations in missions against Iranian radar , several radar stations and SAM radar systems were attacked and destroye. In one of these missions a MiG 25 BM was hit and damaged by an AIM 54A Phoenix launched from an F 14A,the Soviet MiG 25 BM was able to return at its base but after the landing had suffered damage that it was declared a total loss.
once again… one of those completely made up and unsubstantiated lies originating from the fictional writings on ACIG… 😀
sheytanelkebirDuring the Iran / Iraq the Iraqi MiG 25 RB often manned by pilots of the Soviet Union and other Warsaw Pact nations in the beginning of the war due to lack of fully trained Iraqi pilots since the preparation of the MiG 25 pilots had required a longer training , made many strike missions against Teeram and petroleum terminal on the kark Isle .
this is factually incorrect. not a single combat mission was ever flown by a foreign pilot. Show us some proof to the contrary…
These attacks only began to decrease in intensity as the F 14A Tomcat II were being put into operation again, due to the U.S. embargo and the Iranian pilots and their crews to develop new tactics to face the MiG 25RB.
Faced with increasing rates of losses of the MiG 25 RB in combat against the F 14A Tomcat II
Iraq lost just 3 MiG25RB to ALL CAUSES over a period of 8 years from 1982-1990… hardly a cause for panic 😉
the Iraq began to acquire SS 1 Scud missile , and then went on to produce copies of these missiles for use against Iran.
Iraq operated the R17 “scud” from before the war with Iran, and before they got any MiG25s. Anyway, Iraq’s attack missions were mostly carried out by MiG23BN and SU22 and SU25s 😀 not scuds of MiG25RBs!
The importance of F 14A Tomcat II was so high that in many battles that these crews were ordered not to engage Iraqi fighters, should only guide the F 4 Phantom II and F 5E Tiger II against these targets through radar AWG 9 from F 14A , to prevent loss of F 14A as well as save the missile AIM 54A Phoenix, since these were the only defense against the Mig 25RB .
you’ve spent far too much time on ACIG and various Iranian forums 😀
Even with these restrictions the F 14A Tomcat II had obtained may have more than 120 victories throughout the war with Iraq, possibly including 10 MiG 25 RB / PD.
Iraq’s total losses of fixed wing combat aircraft in the war did not exceed 150 to ALL causes, and the number of MiG25s of all types lost to all causes did not exceed 6 aircraft (3 RB and 3 PDS).
Iran was the only country that had to face large-scale attacks of MiG 25RB did not consider these as useless, in fact considered them very dangerous, so always tried to preserve tis strength of the F 14A Tomcat II even when they could cause more loss to Iraq.
Quite hilarious! Iraq received a grand total of 12 MiG25RBs which flew a few “attack” missions with no significance… yet somehow the explanation for why the “uberwaffen” F14 failed to shoot down the thousands upon thosands of MiG21, MiG23BN, SU22, SU25, Mirage F1 sorties is because they were “waiting” for a MiG25RB to make an appearance (and the survival of most MiG25s show that even when these did appear, the F14s were busy with something else!)
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