All true. However fighter sales in many of those countries have completely stopped since end of Cold War and in some cases earlier.

Indeed… which is why it will soon be time for them to buy “something” to maintain even a symbolic air policing capability at a cost that won’t bankrupt these smaller economies… (also many on the list would prefer no ITAR restrictions).

Indeed… the ML was considered a superior interceptor by the Iraqis compared to Mirage F1 for instance… in fact, within weeks of the MiG23ML entering service in 1983 it scored its first kill against an f14 tomcat.

Personally I don’t believe the Iraqi claims either. Fighter pilots tend to overstate their kills by astronomic levels. Third world dictatorships even more so.

Secondly there are surviving the air crew themselves, if any.

ACIG did research into the matter and they found no conclusive evidence either.

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=47

If conclusive proof is obtained, then I’m willing to change my mind.

Til then only kill I believe the IrAF had of Western aircraft was a single F/A-18C shot down by a MiG-25.

right. so “ACIG” would know better than Generals of iraq’s air defence command? Or a pilot shot down would know better than the Sector Operating Command which shot him down?

Iraqi pilots claims are filed and investigated (sometimes for years)… the example of the F/A18 was only awarded to the MiG25 pilot in 1995 when the wreckage of the F/A18 was found… Contrary to “popular propaganda” the Iraqis were not handing out “kill confirmations” like cotton candy (that’s more of a USAF thing!).

Anyway, there are now a few memoirs of Iraqi Generals from the wars written, with interesting details… perhaps they are translated to English one day and you will be able to read them… (do note that the 1991 war had been written about 100% exclusively by ONE SIDE up to now, with no corrections from the Iraqi side, so its not unexpected that there will be “resistance” to “established wisdom” written 100% from one perspective).

Finally the above is a “moot point” the Iraqi generals themselves were not obsessed by “air to air kills” the way fanbois on forums are… they mention these details actually in a subject discussing the complete obsolescence of the S75s!

I think the SU35 is far too large for many countries. the MiG35 is a true russian equivalent to the Eurocanards IMHO… if only they’d make the damned thing!

A thing that surely you could surely proof to misbelievers, eh?

read the memoirs of Iraqi generals published recently. An Iraqi claim is no less valid than a US one… (especially since the planes WERE INDEED SHOT DOWN! – perhaps the ones doing the shooting know better what they did the shooting with!)… anyway that’s off topic in this particular thread… The pilots in question (and GCI operators) got commendations and a car each (operators of the air SAM command units in question did not)… you want to see pictures of the cars?

as I mentioned above already several times… the USSR would have made short work of a country like Iraq in a similar scenario… especially when threats of using nuclear weapons and destroying dams were made to the Iraqis which effectively stunted them even from making effective defensive measures lest they trigger reprisals worse than what they were already receiving! I think most third world countries would be in a similar situation (e.g. Linebacker II in Vietnam)…

the J22s are aging pretty badly… something will have to give, either they relinquish fighter-bomber capability or buy Yak130s… There was recent talk of Serbia restarting a light fighter programme with funding from the UAE? Whatever happened to that?

So what kind of missiles shot down the F-14s, F-16 and Tornado, to your mind?

Air Defence Fighters. To the Iraqis mind (and there was a nice bonus, so its not something easily awarded).