just thought I’d throw this grenade in here.

http://rt.com/usa/fight-f-35-vulnerability-cyber-464/

Is this really true?

I kind of assumed journalists were being stupid and mixed up Mi-35s for the increase in Mi-28s.
Whats the point, instead of just getting more Mi-28s?

presumably the Mi28NE are dedicated attack helos for the army aviation.

the Mi35M are for the special forces.

What isn’t clear is whether this jeopardises the deal for the Ah-1z helos for basra operations command… how good are the Mi35Ms for operations over saline water / high humidity?

– – – Updated – – –

Brazil paid US$ 363,9 million for 12 Mi-35M. The source is the Brazilian Ministry of Defense.

ahhh. ok thanks that clears it up. makes much more sense ($12.5M per attack helo did seem way too low for 2009).

the price is rather hefty though… lots of commissions all round!

in 2008 Brazil paid about $150M for 12 Mi35M4s (unit flyaway cost $12.5M) whilst the Iraqis are $215M for 6 (unit flyaway cost $36M)… that’s 300% more than the brazilian helo… OK there would have been some inflation in the intervening period.. but not this much!

perhaps the Iraqi helos are higher spec than the Brazilian (either way they will include russian avionics not israeli).

the “three Mils” in Iraqi service will have great commonality of parts and armaments… its a no brainer choice really. except what to use for the marsh / seaside areas…

I am guessing that this kills off the AH-1Z contract…

I would not put Algeria or Angola that high. not necessarily a money issue..but a needs issue. There is no threat that justifies the need for a stealth fighter yet.
Sudan, Syria, Libya, Egypt, no.
Iran no. Western media likes to paint Russia as a friend of Iran but they really aren’t. Iran more likely to go Chinese but even that is low.
Vietnam probably one day.. after all they need something to spank Chinese j-20s! and pak-fa will be that wooden paddle wielded by an angry catholic nun.

I see the PAK-FA as the “natural” successor to the MiG25 for former (or current in the case of algeria) operators of the type… OK. they have SU-30MKAs… but still, looking at the size of algeria, they would be looking to get a true “premier” fighter to replace the old MiG25s within the next 6-10 years… where the PAK-FA can slot in nicely. If the moroccans end up with some F35s after 2020 (or even a whiff of looking at some!) then the algerians will surely spunk out the cash for a squadron of PAK-FAs.

Libya… starting from scratch, loads of money, large territory to cover, historical user of MiG25s, west isn’t going to “trust” them with high-tech stuff… natural customer!

Syria… if Assad survives he’d buy some (even if its “funded” by Iran as a proxy)… it’d replace the MiG25s as their premier fighter, once again one squadron’s worth.

Egypt… if someone else pays, they’d take it tomorrow… unlikely as long as the muslim brotherhood are in power though.

Sudan… their “war” with the south could escalate. but they are in deep financial trouble. if they ever manage to “recapture” some of the oil fields in the south, they’d be looking to beef up their defences from an expected angry AU… but they are an “outside” chance.

Iraq… depending on what happens with their current weapons deal with Russia… very strong possibility. they will have the cash, and as a former operator of soviet fighters they do appreciate their sukhois and migs…

UAE / Kuwait don’t shy away from buying russian… and its unlikely the US will give them access to much stealth tech… so they may make a deal with russia.

Kazakhstan… almost guaranteed.
Belarus… maybe a squadron’s worth funded by Russia?
Ukraine… unlikely unless major changes happen in relations with russia…

Venezuela, Peru in latin america are a strong possibility… followed by the wild cards of brazil and argentina…

Serbia getting an understrength squadron would be interesting… if they don’t get into the EU/NATO… quietly “sponsored” by Russia… Perhaps if greece falls out of the EU sphere they may end up with a small “symbolic” force as part of the new “orthodox cross over the balkans /aegean”… but this scenario is rather unlikely, unless NATO escalate their deployments close to Russia…

all in all, I’d expect to see at least 300 PAK-FAs finding export customers… but mostly in small batches of no more than 20 aircraft per air force (except maybe kazakhstan who’d have a larger fleet to cover their territories).

the above numbers are simply bogus (at least in relation to events involving Iraq).

– – – Updated – – –

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?180731-Modern-fighter-combat-records

Curtesy of megaraptor @MP
[INDENT]The Format is:
[Name of aircraft] Air-to-air kills – Air-to-air losses – Losses to ground fire
[Name of conflict aircraft was used in] (Nation that used aircraft in said conflict) Air-to-air kills – Air-to-air losses – Losses to ground fire

Aircraft which were destroyed on the ground are not included in this analysis, because any plane can get destroyed on the ground no matter how good it or its pilot is.

ok, lets start…

F-15A/C/I/S Eagle 102-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 32-0-0

Iraq lost 23 planes in total.

F-14 Tomcat 135-4-4

Gulf War (USA) 1-0-1

The F14A+ was shot down by what? don’t tell me S75!

Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 130-4-4

Iraq lost 145 or so fixed wing combat aircraft in the iran war IN TOTAL. and Iran started the war with 77 F14s and finished the war with 58 airframes… losing 19 airframes in total (ok some were in accidents… but the Iraqis did claim 12+ kills against them).

F-4 Phantom 306-106-545
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 68-29-33

wonderful… already more kills than Iraq’s total losses…

Mirage F.1 24-43-20
Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 15-35-11?

so the Iraqis lost 46 airframes? really? they lost only 17 including accidents…. which coincidentally is LESS than the number of F14 airframes that Iran lost in the war despite flying maybe 10% of the number of sorties that the Mirages flew…

Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8-0

hmmm. I think its closer to 5.

Gulf War (Kuwait) 3 (possibly 12)-0-0

wow, 12 kills? really? even though the only kill the Iraqis seem to remember is the I-HAWK site shooting down a superfrelon…

MiG-21 240-501-[too little information for an accurate count of losses to ground fire]

Six-Day War (Iraq) 0-1-

got 2 kills in the battle of H3… and they had the bloodied helmets of the israelis too, until the americans decided to steal it and give it to Israel after 2003…

Yom Kippur War (Iraq) 1-9

really?

Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 32-40

so now the kill tally against Iraq is something like double the number of airframes that Iraq actually lost 1980-88… and we haven’t even mentioned all the other types (SU22, Su25 etc…)

Gulf War (Iraq) 0-4-0

ok

MiG-23 25-102-[too little information for an accurate count of losses to ground fire]

Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 16-56

iraqi losses:
MiG23BN – 13
MiG23ML – 6
MiG23MF – 3
MiG23MS – 2 = that is about 25 in total…

Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8-0

should be slightly less, and the 23 also has a “kill” not acknowledged.

NFZs (Iraq) 0-1-0

nope.

MiG-25 8-8-1

Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 5-1-0

for just the fighter version this is correct. if you include the RB then losses go up…

Syrian-Iraqi border violation (1986) (Iraq) 1-0-0

ok

Gulf War (Iraq) 1-2-0

ok

NFZs (Iraq) 1-1-0

ok

MiG-29 6-18-1

Gulf War (Iraq) 0-5-0

should have 1 kill.

F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger 25-23-30

Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 18-23-12

the kills are stratospheric!

Observations:

4) The poor performance of the Mirage F.1 is somewhat surprising.

because it isn’t true.

5) The ridiculously high kill ratio of the F-14 in Iranian service is also surprising. The common canard is that training trumps technology, but an air force with great technology but beset by political purges and struggling with maintenance problems and embargoes can still have a turkey shoot against an air force with both poor training and poor technology.

because it isn’t true… in 1980-81 Iran had 300+ modern BVR capable long range fighters vs an Iraqi airforce that had 0 yes 0 BVR capable fighters… yet the Iraqi airforce gave effective air support and bombed iranian cities and facilities at will daily… and despite flying 8x more combat sorties during the war period the Iraqis lost LESS fixed wing aircraft than the Iranians…. and ultimately neither air force made the slightest bit of difference to the actual war itself… the air war was almost some sort of chivalrous “side show” from the real battle. how much ordnance will 4 phantoms deliver compared to 200 M46 guns? and how long can they hang around the battle space for? for the iraqis and the iranians the most effective and “useful” planes they had were the simple ones… PC7 / PC9 / SU25 / MiG21 / SU22 for the Iraqis… when the army “needed” air support, these were the planes that were there to support them… not mirages or mig25s etc… The F14s seem to have done almost nothing to stop the daily Iraqi bombardment of Iran… with Iraqis flying 30,000+ air raids into Iran in a given year (e.g. 1985) and losing maybe 30-35 planes in the process… their existence hardly mattered at all… the effectiveness of Iraq’s own “expensive” fighters was amply illustrated by their inability to control their airspace in 1991… all in all the viability of smaller nations effectively operating “air superiority” fighters against a half-capable enemy have fallen short… mostly due to a lack of numbers, situational awareness etc… the only “players” in that game are US/Russia/India/China.

6) Su-27 is the only Russian fighter to have a positive kill ratio in combat, but as we all know this is likely due to “monkey model” export fighters, as well as the poor training standards of Arab air forces.

I know, I know arab monkeys etc…

if the US refuses to sell F35 or even F15SE to the GCC then maybe the saudis would buy a few…. stranger things have happened.

After 2020 Iraq may have the finances to buy a small number (one squadron’s worth). Algeria or even a resurgent Libya could be other potential buyers… I’d expect Angola to maybe buy a few (they do have increasing oil income and need to keep up appearances in the region)….