probably more comparable to F102 / F106 than the above examples.

as interceptors, climb rate was a key criteria…

F106 – 150m/s
Su-15 – 228m/s

combat range:

F106 – 2900km
SU15 – 1380km

So russians would have needed more SU15s to keep up QRA over a larger border area due to the shorter range of the aircraft… but when intercepting, they’d reach their destination faster than an F106. not a bad compromise overall.

once reaching their targets…
AiM-4 falcon – crude 10km range missile.
vs
R98M (AA-3 Anab) – I would say superior to AiM-4 falcon…

but SU-15 didn’t have a nuclear AAM… so armament can go either way really 😀

I still don’t know what the story was with the two MiG21Bis scrambled at the beginning of the war (with the inevitable shootdown).

regarding future Iraqi air force, only 36 F16s and 28 L159BQ are confirmed… There is talk of MiG29M / MiG35 / SU30MK2 from russia… but so far no details emerged at all.

There is also according to the airforce commander “negotiations” with a European fighter supplier details of which would be released if a deal is concluded.

In addition Iraq today signed a preliminary “defence agreement” with Pakistan, first phase of which includes training of 35 Iraqi fighter pilots in Pakistan… who know Iraq may end up looking at JF17s…

If the US does not sell AMRAAMs to Iraq… then expect the Iraqis to buy a “premier” fighter and relegate the F16s to the Attack / Recon role. They would also buy a simple “air policing / ground attack” plane… but the SU-25s no longer in production sadly…

since at the same time Iraq’s been in a long term discussion for the purchase of T50/A-50 from South Korea for their “light fighter” requirement (though to be honest I think that race is now over with the selection of L159).

They will never have 8 dedicated interceptor squadrons again… If Iraq does buy a “premier” fighter (eurofighter / rafale / SU30/35) then expect no more than 2 squadrons worth as the parliament is in a constant battle to reign in defence spending…

here are the actual statistics for Iraqi SU25s.

they became operational in 1985 and there were 4 squadrons equipped with them during the war with Iran.

SU-25
delivered: 72
sent abroad during 1980s: 0
Accidental losses: ??
Combat losses: 4-6
remaining in 1990: 66
destroyed in 1991: 31
damaged in 1991: 8
flew to iran in 1991: 7
survived after 1991: 20

Edit for sheytanelkebir: I think that I am perfectly able to read and focus on the thread. Maybe it’s your personal familiar involvment in the conflict that prevent you from any reliable analysis.

I am not quite sure I follow… yes I am Iraqi, so that precludes me from commenting about war in Iraq? So perhaps Americans shouldn’t be allowed to comment either since it prevents them from making (you forgot that word in your sentence above) reliable analyses… :dev2:

Again, if Iraq had any capability left for intercepting anything (or to fly something) why his aircrafts flew to his very friendly Iran neighbor after just a few days of conflict?

The Iraqi Air force was completely overwhelmed technologically, numerically and in terms of “freedom of operation” (by the political leadership)… The Iraqis did not have the means to protect medium and high altitude airspace due to a lack of advanced SAMs for high altitude work as well as GCI becoming unusable for fighter-interceptors.

in terms of fighter interceptors the Iraqis had the following squadrons:
1x MiG25PDS
2x MiG23ML
2x Mirage F1
2x MiG29

fighter squadrons… that to cover the north, south, kuwait and Iranian border region (about 120 planes EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHICH was technically inferior on a 1-1 basis with the US fighters, not to mention when taking into accounting the EC135s, E3 AWACS and EF111 / EA6B etc… aircraft accompanying them).

Decision to evacuate aircraft to Iran was made by Saddam personally, and not something that was advised by the actual Iraqi air force commander…

still during the “evacuation” of aircraft to Iran is where most Iraqi losses occurred, and most of the planes lost in the air were equipped with nothing more than drop tanks.

In fact the Iraqi Air Force was capable of conducting flights and combat missions throughout the war, and did so fleetingly. The fact that confrontation and air defence duties were not given to them lay with the order from Saddam… evacuate your planes, only use fighters to cover their evacuation… whilst the S75 / S125s were supposed to “defend” Iraqi air space…. still they managed a few kills during this idiotic campaign, more out of necessity than anything, but the real story of the war from the Iraqi perspective was the loss of air control resulting in the complete destruction of Iraq’s civil infrastructure (power stations, bridges, water treatment plants)… in a country with 80%+ urban population.

most of Iraq’s losses were on the ground due to specifications and designs of the HAS that Iraq had bought from Belgian/Yugoslav contractors were given to the Allies before the war helping them to plan their destruction… this is where the air force was devastated.

anyway most of this stuff had already been discussed on this thread… you should read it… despite having an “eyeraqi”!! sacrilegiously participating in it! 😀

But, e.g Shilkas, and other SHORAD were exteremelly widespread, probably more then maternity wards in 1991 IRAQ, so your above statement does not help at all to determine if there were any AA shotdown.

SHORADs were only in places that needed defending… most of Iraq’s airspace was covered by nothing but interceptors.

so Imam Ali AB would have an obsolete S75 site as well as several AAA sites and 2x ROLAND launchers… covering the immediate area of the airbase. But the “wider” area of defence is covered by fighter-interceptors.

bits in the middle of the desert (and at high altitude) would be covered by fighter-interceptors as there’s no SHORADs there at all.

one has to remember that the only “real” shorads Iraq had were about 180 units of ROLAND and OSA… these were distributed with 100 launchers of ROLAND defending the low altitude perimeter of airbases and 27 roland and 60 OSA defending divisional HQs of the army.

Then it becomes very easy to know if something could have been shot down by one of these systems…

1- was it within the close vicinity of an airbase or army divisional HQ?

if yes

1a – was the plane flying within the engagement envelope of the OSA/ROLAND

yes

1aa- COULD have been shot down by ROLAND/OSA

else if no

1b – was the plane flying within the envelope of a KUB/S125 system?

yes

1bb – could have been downed by one of these

else if no

1c was the plane outside of the envelope of all these systems

yes

1cc – could be a mythical MiG of some sort…

I am especially wary of the claims of S75s shooting down F14A+, F15E and other aircraft… at the end of a JP233 run, a ROLAND would be the most likely culprit however… if the plane had made it past the air defence perimeter of the ROLAND OTOH then it would be something else… if its in the middle of the desert, and there’s no Army divisional HQ around, then its almost certainly a fighter interceptor.

that would put it 25km beyond Jalibah air base near al luhais gas separation plant… so its possible that the ROLAND from Jalibah got it and it crashed 20km away (but the altitude it was flying at would probably preclude such a long separation between hit and crash site)?

or a scrambling MiG29 following it from Imam Ali AB… or a QRA scrambling from Jalibah took off in front of it… on a collision course.

these open areas were not covered by any SHORADs. only some “spots” were covered, the airbases and army sites basically.

here’s the possible crash location near al luhais… http://wikimapia.org/#lat=30.3571969&lon=46.8228126&z=15&l=0&m=b I’ve been there many times… Anglo Dutch Shell is operating this place nowadays, in a twist of fate 😀

are there many chinese investors in cyprus?

F16.