awee… Xan i make you upset? i am sorry dude.
hes not the only one who is angry.
WTF is wrong with you?
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๐ yea matt we can do without someone trying to rename our AF ๐
Indian the pics of the model that came out of the P-17 had a mast that was very clutered. If the Chinese can come up with a stealthy design I dont think y our engineers cant. I hope that the P-17 is not just a streatched Talwar design.
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Originally posted by aditya
matt,
There is no “INAF” its I-A-F.
Some use InAF do distinguish from IDF/AF. But “INAF” is nothing.
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NIMA says different
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๐ก ๐ก ๐ก %&^%&^$%#$ to NIMA whoever or whatever that is!
Its IAF and nothing else!!!
Matt I have a bone to pick with you ๐ก its IAF and “NOT” INAF!!!!!!!
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040301/main7.htm
IAF to induct 125 new fighter aircraft
New Delhi, February 29
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is in hectic negotiations with French, Russian and US bidders to purchase 125 frontline multi-role fighter planes to partially replace nearly 300 MiG-21 aircraft on the verge of being phased out.
Though French aircraft major Dassault is currently the frontrunner with its offer of upgraded Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, Lockheed-Martin is offering technology transfer of its runway bestseller F-16 Fighting Falcon.
The two major Russian fighter companies โ Mikoyan, the makers of the MiG range of fighters, and Tobensoexport, the makers of Sukhoi aircraft โ have formed a consortium to jointly bid for the Indian contract, according to Defence Ministry sources.
The IAF, official sources said, had projected an immediate need for some 125 new fighter planes, with the selection expected to be completed in a few months.
The new fighters would seek to partially replace 300 MiG 21 FL/M interceptors and 100 MiG 23BN ground attack fighters, which have reached the end of their flying time and are on the verge of being phased out.
India, officials said, was expected to go in for direct purchase of the fighters in a bid to allow the Aircraft Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited more time to make progress on the Tejas, countryโs Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which, according to current schedule, is expected to be inducted only by 2009.
A high-level team from the French company was recently here for protracted negotiations with the Defence Ministry and Indian Air Force officials. Dassault, while offering the upgraded Mirage 2000-5, is also ready for a technology-transfer arrangement to set up an assembly plant at HAL.
With the delay in the LCA programme, the IAF is in danger of entering a critical phase as it faces reduction in its fighter flying fleet from the current 39 fighter squadrons to 32 squadrons by 2006.
The IAF, in its projection, wants a fighter with a maximum take off weight ration of 25,000 kg, forcing the Sukhoi company to join hands with Mikoyan to back the upgraded MiG-29MI/M2 for the contract. โ PTI
Another Link
Howdy guys long time no see. I have moved now. Hope to catch the banglore airshow the next time it happens ๐
Watcha been up to Matt !
about as much as tony Blair ?
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Not to forget George Bush :p
Matt as they say barking dogs will bark :rolleyes:
On a related cold war note with all this talk about Russian equipment being complete crap – what to clarify a thought. During the cold war if nuke weapons were not used would nato have been able to stop the soviet union from over running europe with the sheer number of their so called ‘crappy” planes and tanks and artillery and what not????
Comments ?
Werent there some posts around in another thread that suggested that Russian tech was no good for the Chinese anymore? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
People need to realise that inspite of all their woes the Russians are way ahead of most in defence tech except for the US if you look at the overall pic.
The Tu-22M3 is one mean bird. The Indian lease for four of these beauts is tied to the Gorshkov ๐ก but they should get here eventually.
The Tu-22M3 aircraft is intended to attack mobile and stationary targets using missiles and bombs at land and maritime theatres of operations. It can operate alone and in a group in hostile air defence areas under ECM conditions.
Operating over land theatres of operations, the Tu-22M3 is capable of striking installations of public and military administration, defence industry, power supply and communications systems, as well as rendering ineffective air force bases, paved air fields, and attacking areas of enemy manpower and materiel concentration. The aircraft is able to penetrate enemy air defences at different flight altitudes and speeds, depending on its kind.
Over water the Tu-22M3 fights groups of ships, including aircraft-carrier forces, and disperses mines in water areas and fairways.
The avionics suite ensures automatic navigating, aiming and piloting when flying according to a pre-set or on-the-fly programme. It also controls bombing and missile launching.
Basic Characteristics
Aircraft length, m 42.46
Wingspan, m 27.70/34.28
Height on the ground, m 11.05
Maximum takeoff weight, kg 124,000
Combat load, kg
normal 12,000
maximum 24,000
Maximum speed, km/h 2,000
Cruising speed, km/h 900
Service ceiling, m 10,200 … 14,000
Tactical radius, km 2,200
Run, m 2,000 … 2,100
Roll, m 1,200 … 1,300
Number and type of engines 2 NK-25 afterburning turbofans
Crew 4
By Matt
hmm Xan i think they have already proven the anti sea skimming missile missile bit.
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Well that was the version that had the problem with the guidence. Hopefully that has been sorted out now- do we detect israeli inputs here ๐
Heres another one
http://www.geocities.com/spacetransport/aircraft-mca.html
SPACE TRANSPORT: Aircraft : Medium Combat Aircraft
Last Updated : June 24, 2002
The twin-engined Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) is a stealthy Gen-5 combat aicraft optimised for strike missions. It will complement LCA and Su-30MKI as India’s leading combat planes. If given the go-ahead, it should fly before 2010 and be inducted by 2015. Right now it is only a concept.
India is currently developing LCA a light multirole attack plane. The only components common between MCA and LCA will be part of the wing, the Kaveri engine, and some systems and subsystems. MCA will be much heavier (12 ton dry weight).
The LCA has started flying in 2001 and should be inducted around 2008. MCA itself should make its first flight before 2010. It will face direct competition from China’s J-12 , which should come out before 2015.
[Why India needs it] [Propulsion] [Stealth] [Latest Developments]
Why India needs the MCA
MCA is basically envisioned as a replacement for the British Jaguar and Mirage 2000 the IAF flies, which will be phased out by 2015.
Propulsion
The State owned Gas Turbine Research Establishment [GTRE] was to indigenously develop the Kaveri engine to power the LCA and MCA. But there have been major slippages in all the milestones. GE, SNECMA, and Klimov had all offered to provide the engines for this aircraft.
The Kaveri engines in the MCA will have a slightly higher dry thrust than in the LCA engine. These engines will also have thrust-vectoring nozzles. It is unknown which company will be providing this technology, or whether it will be developed in India itself. A supercruise capability is not being sought. The twin engined aircraft is planned to have a thrust ratio of 7:8:1. The MCA will use India’s own radar-absorbent material to reduce radar cross-section.
Kaveri
Air-mass flow 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio 0.16
Overall pressure ratio 21.5
Turbine entry temperature 1487-1700 K
Maximum dry thrust 52 kN (5302 kg)
Maximum dry SFC 0.78 kg/hr/kg
After burner maximum power thrust 81 kN (8260 kg)
After burner maximum power SFC 2.03 kg/hr/kg
Thrust-to-weight ratio 7.8
Kaveri engine is a two-spool bypass turbofan engine having three stages of transonic low pressure compressor driven by a single-stage low pressure turbine. The core engine consists of six-stage transonic compressor driven by single-stage cooled high pressure turbine. The engine is provided with a compact annular combustor with airblast atomisers. The aerothermodynamic and mechanical designs of engine components have been evolved using many in-house and commercially developed software for solid and fluid mechanics.
Kaveri three-stage transonic fan, designed for good stall margin and bird strike capability, handles an air mass flow of 78 kg/s and develops a pressure Combustion Chamber Liner ratio of 3.4. The six-stage variable capacity transonic compressor of Kaveri develops a pressure ratio of 6.4. The variable schedule of inlet guide vanes and two rows of stator is through FADEC control system to open the stator blades in a predetermined manner. High intensity low UD ratio annular combustor of Kaveri engine incorporates air blast injection of fuel for uniform outlet temperature profile and reduced carbon emission.
Kaveri high pressure turbine is provided with an efficient cooling design incorporating augmented convection-cum-film cooling for the vanes and combination cooling for the rotor blade to handle up to 1700 K turbine entry temperature. Kabini engine comprising high pressure compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine has undergone high altitude test at facilities abroad successfully demonstrating the flat rating concept of Kaveri engine assembly and in particular the combustor high altitude ignition and stability performances.
Kaveri engine has been specifically designed for Indian environment. The engine is a variable cycle-flat-rated engine in which the thrust drop due to high ambient, forward speed is well compensated by the increased turbine entry temperature at the spool Kabini altitude test speed. This concept has been already demonstrated with high temperature and pressure condition in DRDO’s High Mach Facility. Kaveri engine is controlled by Kaveri full authority digital control unit {KADECU), which has been developed and successfully demonstrated at DRDO’s test bed.
Stealth
Stealthiness will be a priority and hence the MCA will have two small, outward-canted fins and the external fuel tanks will be mounted above the wings. Absence of a vertical fin improves stealth. However, not all weapons will be internal and hence will compromize the stealth.
If all progresses according to plan, MCA will become first military fighter that has no tail – at all. USA is the only country to have seriously pursued such aircraft. It experimented with tail-less design in X-36. F-16X concept is another tail-less concept.
Tail-less design has been seen in Flying Wings, but these represent a separate class of aeroplanes. To realize the MCA, India will have to develop cutting edge technology. US help in this area is obviously expected.
Latest Developments
In June 2001, India was offered ‘joint development and production’ of a new 5th generation fighter by Russia. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but this time it was made directly to India’s Defense Minister. The new fighter will ‘counter’ America’s second 5th gen Joint Strike Fighter [JSF] which too is undergoing flight testing.
The plane we are talking about is Russia’s Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi (PAK FA), which means ‘Future Air Complex for Tactical Air Forces’ : (Russian Name=Wierd Name). It is intended to be the same size as the US JSF but have a mission profile closer to the F-22 Raptor, with air superiority being the primary mission and ground attack and reconnaissance being secondary. Also similar to the JSF, the cost is expected to be about $30 million each. Even the deadlines assumed by the Russians are directly related to the date of entering JSF into the market.
Frozen out of most of the world’s civil aircraft market, Russia retains an unquestioned presence only in fighters and helicopters, which means that developing a new generation of fighters is critical to the survival of the Russian aerospace industry, Russian officials say.
“The creation of the new-generation fighter is a matter of life or death for the Russian aircraft industry,” said Evgniy Fedosov, chief of the State Scientific-Research Institute of Aviation Systems, called GosNIIAS.
The first deliveries, both for Russian armed forces and for export, would be possible in 2011-12. The trick, however, will be finding the money to develop the fighter. The first source of funds, small and uncertain, is the Russia’s Ministry of Defence budget. The second source, several times larger, is the export revenues of the companies participating in the programme. The third possible source is financing from other countries interested in buying the aircraft.
Several proposals exist for the PAK FA. Sukhoi, for example, modified it S-54 trainer project to come up with its S-55 LFI concept. Mikoyan & Gurevich [MiG] has showcased – the I-2000 – Interceptor-2000 (Istribityel-2000)
In November 2001, Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister, Ilya Klebanov’s announced that India and Russia had agreed to jointly develop a fifth-generation strike aircraft. This was the result of a four-day visit to Russia by India’s Prime Minister. It was quoted by the RIA Novosti news agency as saying that the two sides were preparing a presentation of the new project in India in the first quarter of 2002. It would be the most ambitious and sophisticated defence project undertaken by the two countries so far. It seems that the agreement is currently only ‘in principle’ – not signed on the dotted line.
At the time of writing this piece, the PAK FA was yet to be named, which would be done only after Sukhoi presents their design to the Russian government. This process should be complete in 2003 only. It is a common misconception that Sukhoi’s S-37 Berkut (Golden Eagle) is Russia’s next fighter – it may or may not be, but should heavily influence it’s design.
Member
Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 37
quote:
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Originally posted by xanadu
Earlier reports suggested that the Indians were looking to foreign firms including Russian , French and US companies in developing an engine for the MCA. Snecma anyone???
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Xanadu
ANy source of your info?
I were a few mentioning this a long while back but the one below is the only one that I can remember or find that is still around and its the one that some in here love to hate :p anyway here it is
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Info/Aircraft/MCA.html
The Medium Combat Aircraft [MCA] is projected as the replacement for the Jaguar and Mirage 2000 fleets in the IAF. It is under design at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in Bangalore. The MCA will cost $2 billion to develop and will be a tailless delta design with two engines, combined with a thrust vectoring control capability. It is hoped that the engines on the aircraft will develop a thrust-to-weight ratio of 7.8:1. Although it is unclear which company will be selected to supply the engines; SNECMA, Klimov and General Electric have been identified as potential suppliers.
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Earlier reports suggested that the Indians were looking to foreign firms including Russian , French and US companies in developing an engine for the MCA. Snecma anyone???
Since this is the news thread here to but discussions onthe other thread please.
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItem…nataka&Topic=0&
After LCA, Bangalore labs go full throttle on Medium Combat Aircraft
Wednesday December 31 2003 00:00 IST
BANGALORE: After the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) what? A lighter, more agile fighter?
Scientists in the aviation capital have now gone back to the drawing boards to design and develop a Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA), a frontline multi-role fighter aircraft on the lines of the deadly Sukhois in the IAF squadrons.
Shrouded in secrecy, the project has been conceived after the success of the indigenous LCA Tejas. “It is not yet official. But we are planning an MCA. It is going to be a techno-economic marriage,” says a top scientist in one of the city labs.
The bird may be unveiled soon and may fly as early as 2006. In fact, at a seminar recently, scientists briefly discussed the MCA as a war machine that will give the IAF an edge over its contemporaries.
The techno-economic fusion that scientists are talking about is about harnessing the available and developing technology with an eye on costs. “The cost of developing the MCA apart, the production-line costs should be affordable to the user as well as the company producing it. If it is not economically viable, there is no use attempting to produce one,” is their argument.
Already, three prototypes of the LCA have been flown. While the Test Demonstrators I and II have flown successfully, a prototype also took to the air recently. While another prototype PV II is ready to fly, defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is getting ready to make six limited series production of six Tejas fighters. A naval variant of the LCA is already on the cards.
The MCA is likely to be a multi-role fighter about the size of the Su-30 MKIs that the IAF is inducting from Russia. The Sukhois are being used for air superiority, air defence, close air support, bombing and strafing missions.
Despite its girth, the Sukhois are awesome and it is the only plane which can take a yaw turn (a turn without dipping its wings), like a helicopter.
With labs here developing advanced technologies in engine, computational fluid dynamics and composite materials, scientists felt it was the right time to go in for an MCA that can eventually replace the frontline fighters. “The dependance on Western nations can come down and valuable foreign exchange too can be saved,” sources said.
The Kaveri engine (Mark II) being tested on the GTRE test bed for the LCA will power the MCA. The future aircraft will also have a glass cockpit with electronic displays.
The MCA like its predecessor LCA, will be the baby of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and will have the backing of some 45-odd DRDO labs in the country.
For cynics, scientists have a message that if the Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) can be designed from scratch to first flight in 20 months by HAL, the MCA will soon be a reality.