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fah619

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  • in reply to: Breakthrough in AF 447 search #479638
    fah619
    Participant

    Air France 447

    AF 447 Folks:

    Good day!

    While that may be very well the case of the whereabouts of Capt Marc Dubois during the last 4 min of flight, one key factor into the whole equation is…. who was really in charge of the aircraft? The two young pilots or the main flight data computer on the aircraft??

    in reply to: Breakthrough in AF 447 search #479675
    fah619
    Participant

    AF FLT 447

    AF 447 Folks:

    A similar accident sometime ago…different aircraft!! A Boeing 757!!

    Via computerweekly.com;

    Aeroperú Flight 603
    Tony Collins
    Friday 12 June 2009 14:00

    The crash Aeroperú Flight 603 is the story of another aircraft which was in good flying order except for a blocked Pitot-static system which led to onboard systems giving the pilots unreliable and conflicting information about their air speed and altitude. Again, the pilots were overwhelmed with inconsistent information.
    As in the crashes of the Airbus AF 447 and the Birgenair Flight 301, the pilots of Aeroperú were flying over water.
    Flight 603 was a scheduled flight from Lima, Peru to Santiago, Chile. It originated at Miami International Airport. It crashed on 2 October 1996, killing nine crew and 61 passengers. The aircraft was a Boeing 757-23A, one of what was then a new a new generation of computer-controlled aircraft in which pilots were trained to rely on a flight data system which was designed to reduce errors, both mechanical and human.
    Problems began within two minutes of take-off. The altimeter read zero but the plane was clearly airborne. The 757 had three altimeters, one for the pilot, one for the co-pilot and one for back-up. All three seemed to be dead.
    “The altimeters are stuck,” said the co-pilot. The landing gear had only just been raised.
    The pilot replied: “This is really new.”
    As in the Birgenair Flight 301, the pilots faced a “Rudder ratio” alarm which warned them to avoid large or abrupt rudder movements. It’s a warning that the plane is flying too fast.

    Then the air speed indicators seemed faulty. Confused with bewildering number of warnings the Captain decided to land. He was flying at night, over water, with no visual reference points and not able to trust his instrument readings.
    With various alarms in the cockpit the co-pilot told air traffic control: “We declare emergency. We have no basic instruments. No altimeter. No [air speed indicator]. We declare an emergency.”
    There was confusion between the pilot and co-pilot as to whether the auto-pilot was engaged or not. At one point the pilot notes with concern that the auto-pilot had switched off.
    Having warned the pilots that the aircraft was going too fast, the systems gave a warning that it was in danger of hitting the ground. An electronically-activated voice sounded a “too low terrain” warning.
    Within six minutes of take-off the pilot said: “We don’t have control, not even the basics.”
    The co-pilot saw that the speed was shown as zero. But air traffic control told the pilot that the plane was going up. This was wrong. Onboard systems were relaying faulty height readings to air traffic control.
    Actual radio communication between the plane and airbase
    A ground proximity alarm warned the pilots they were dangerously low. But air traffic control told them they were at nearly 10,000 feet.
    As on the Birgenair Flight, the pilot’s controls were shaking to give the pilots an unmistakable warning of an imminent stall, though there was a high indicated air speed. Another over-speed warning sounded.
    The pilot said: “We are not stalling. It’s fictitious. It’s fictitious.”
    The last recorded words of pilot: “I have it. I have it we are going to invert!”
    The aircraft bounced on the water, fell back and sank.
    Tape was later found to have covered the 757’s static port, which is part of the Pitot-static system. This caused the instruments to go haywire. Maintenance workers had cleaned the jet, covered the ports with tape and forgotten to remove it.
    Unnoticed by the pilots or air traffic control, the plane had been slowly descending.
    National Geographic’s documentary on the Aeroperú crash concluded that it was a “deadly lesson in how reliant pilots have become on their automated flight systems and how helpless they can be when the systems are crippled”.

    in reply to: Breakthrough in AF 447 search #479815
    fah619
    Participant

    AF 447

    The latest in the saga of Air France Flt 447:

    Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: Pilot Wasn’t In Cockpit

    Via spiegel.de;

    05/23/11
    Recording Indicates Pilot Wasn’t In Cockpit During Critical Phase

    What happened on board the Air France jet that crashed into the Atlantic en route from Rio to Paris? According to information obtained by SPIEGEL from the analysis of flight recorder data, pilot Marc Dubois appears not to have been in the cockpit at the time the deadly accident started to unfold.

    The fate of Air France Flight 447 was sealed in just four minutes. That short time span began with the first warning message on one of the Airbus A330 aircraft’s monitors and ended with the plane crashing into the Atlantic between Brazil and Africa, killing all 228 people on board.

    Since last week, investigators from France’s BEA civil aviation safety bureau have been analyzing the flight data and voice recordings extracted from the cockpit of the Air France flight that crashed on June 1, 2009 while traveling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. What they have learned from the recordings seems to suggest both technical and human failure.

    Sources close to the investigative team have revealed that the recordings indicate that Marc Dubois, the aircraft’s 58-year-old pilot, was not in the cockpit at the time the trouble began. It is reportedly audible that Dubois rushed back into the cockpit. “He called instructions to the two co-pilots on how to save the aircraft,” the source with inside knowledge of the investigation told SPIEGEL.

    But their attempts to save the plane were ultimately in vain.

    Pilot Error?

    At the beginning of May, underwater robots were able to retrieve the flight recorders from the wreckage almost four kilometers (2.5 miles) below the surface of the Sargasso Sea. Two weekends ago, investigators succeeded in extracting data from the black boxes. Within 24 hours, reports were circulating suggesting that the crash seemed more likely the result of pilot error than a manufacturing flaw by Airbus.

    However, even if the captain’s absence from the cockpit may support the pilot-error theory, the data includes clues indicating that the aircraft itself might have behaved in an odd manner. Under these circumstances, investigators are facing a complicated case that might still have surprises in store.

    Until now, it appeared that the crew of Flight AF 447 had steered the plane directly into a severe storm that eventually caused the speed sensors to ice over.

    But the flight path recorded by the black box reportedly shows that the crew had been trying to find the safest possible path through the storm front. They initially appear to have succeeded as the flight data doesn’t contain any evidence of more severe turbulence.

    But the storms in the so-called Intertropical Convergence Zone are treacherous. As if in a vast chimney, massive amounts of water are sucked up to great heights, where they are then transformed into ice crystals which are hard to detect on weather radars. It is precisely this type of ice trap that the Air France plane probably flew into.

    ‘Breakneck Speed’

    Whatever the case might be, the frozen speed sensors put the pilots in a precarious situation: At this altitude, they would have had to maintain a very precise speed to prevent the plane from stalling.

    Pilots have dubbed this dangerous flight condition “deep stall.” “If the plane can’t make a recovery, it plummets at breakneck speed,” explains Jean François Huzen, an Air France captain and union representative for pilots.

    At this point, there is hardly anyone who doubts that the plane experienced a fatal deep stall. Evidence for this can already be found in the location of the plane’s wreckage, roughly 10 kilometers from the last position the plane transmitted via satellite.

    The big question is: What triggered the stall in the first place? One possibility is that the pilots reacted incorrectly to the speed sensors’ failure. But even if this was the case, it still wouldn’t be enough to free the plane’s manufacturer or operator from all responsibility. The fact is that, at the time of the catastrophe, the Air France pilots had been poorly briefed about the growing number of speed-sensor failures — and, more importantly, about the right way to respond to them.

    Who’s to Blame?

    Even more serious are the indications that the plane itself might have responded wrongly to the stall. “The data recorder indicates that the plane pulled steeply upwards shortly after the speed sensors failed,” says an expert with ties to the investigative team, adding that this could have caused the plane to stall.

    Of course, it’s possible that the pilot misestimated his plane’s speed and increased the engine thrust, thereby pulling up the nose. But it’s also possible that onboard flight computers were responsible for the maneuver. The computers are designed to take control whenever the plane’s computer deems it is in a threatening situation. A team of aerospace researchers observed similar behavior in a flight simulator a few months ago.

    While investigations are still ongoing, Airbus refuses to comment on the plane’s flight characteristics. But, last Monday, just moments after the last bits of data were downloaded from the flight recorder, the company sent out an “accident information telex” to all the airlines whose fleets include some of the nearly 800 A330s currently in service.

    The announcement’s reassuring message was that investigators had still not been able to pinpoint any clues pointing toward a technical failure. What’s more, that same evening, a report appeared on the website of the French daily Le Figaro claiming that investigators did not believe Airbus was to blame for the crash.

    Leak?

    But at this early stage in investigations, no one was in a position to make such far-reaching statements, sparking suspicions that they were part of a targeted information leak designed to boost faith in the manufacturer. Certainly both Airbus and Air France have a pressing interest in deflecting responsibility for the accident away from themselves. French prosecutors are investigating whether to charge both companies with negligent manslaughter. Meanwhile, the size of compensation payouts for the families left behind by the victims will ultimately be determined by the extent of blame attributed to each party.

    In the meantime, the two companies have completely different views about when the investigation’s final report should be made public. Airbus would prefer to see the unpleasant matter resolved as soon as possible. In fact, the best thing for it would be to have it appear before the Paris Air Show 2011 opens on June 20 in Le Bourget. The show is expected to see many purchasing contracts signed. As William Voss, president of the Virginia-based Flight Safety Foundation, says: “No company wants to have this kind of unexplained crash on its books.”

    Meanwhile, it will soon be decided whether Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, the CEO of Air France-KLM, will have his contract extended. When the company held a press conference to announce its annual report in Paris last week, Gourgeon was asked whether he thought the investigators’ report might complicate his reappointment.

    The trained fighter pilot sidestepped the sensitive matter saying: “I don’t really like the word ‘responsibility’ so much.”

    Translated from the German by Josh Ward

    in reply to: Lockheed Electra L-188A ID Plate #484173
    fah619
    Participant

    L-188 Data plate

    J Boyle:

    Good Day!

    Interesting data about a sample Lockheed ID plate. Do you have any pics of it??

    Tks in advance!!

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #496892
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    Angelman:

    Good day!

    Plz contact me via PM. We are interested to obtain other shots/angles that you may have of the aircraft and the area of impact.
    Tks

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497079
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    Vet27:

    Another close-up of the throttle area from another Let 410. Photo via Nel Mejia.

    http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8355/tl410113levers.jpg

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497084
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    Vet 27:

    Good day!!

    I will fwd later on another option used with the fuel shut-off valves. No flaps indicators yet, just some dual tracks as seen on Algel’s pictures with something that appears heavy impact with the wheels before the aircraft entered the tree area.

    Include is another picture of the cabin and the levers for your review. Via Nel Mejia.

    http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7244/hrawc31.jpg

    p.s We learned today that the FDR has to be sent to the manufacture in Europe for translation.

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497328
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27 Vet:

    The question about the levers came back fm a fellow pilot in Honduras. The outside levers are the fuel cut-off valves. The inside levers are the fuel Shut-off valves.

    The fuel on board factor is still an open question. Next week we may hear about the ATC traffic at the time of the accident.. About a mile north fm the same spot a TAN SAHSA 727 also crashed c. Oct 1989 due to high winds in the area and other factors.

    Tks again!

    All for now

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497620
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27 Vet:

    Good day!

    Tks for info/data again.

    The up/dwn position of the switches helps alot. We’ll send you a better resolution Tech-Data drawing of the feathering panel & feathering checklist as they become available.

    Nick “Angel” published another angle of an engine/prop above for your review. It is the photo with the black object/spot in the center. The engine cowlings were painted black. We ‘ll send you later also profile views of HR-AUQ in better times.

    All for now.

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497764
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27vet:

    Morning!!

    Tks for the clarification again.

    Does this mean that according to the prop data panel picture and the throttles picture…that engine #1 was feathered and secured/deactivated?? Plz expand a bit on this subject.

    Included this time is another angle of the cockpit area of the sister aircraft HR-AWC

    http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9776/tpanel938letenginepanel.jpg

    http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4486/thrawc3188awc.th.jpg

    Tks

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #497777
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27 Vet:

    Good day!!

    Tks for the fine info/data again.

    Our colleague Angel captured the engine panel from a distance. We hope he sends us other angles/views or more pictures in due time.

    In the meantime, The U.S investigating team which includes a G.E engine investigator captured the included picture also. It appears to them that one engine was out but this is not conclusive due to the fact that the accidente area/point of impact was not properly secured for the first 24 Hrs. We would like you to take a look at it carefully and let us hear your comments. We also have Tech-Data of engine shutdown and prop feathering modes in English for a later review for this particular aircraft.

    We’ll find for you what the little levers in the green circles are. The aircraft was updated with a CVR in Honduras and is currently in custody of the Aeronautical Civilian Authorities at Tegucigalpa, Honduras. Photo via La Tribuna Newspaper.

    More to come. Tks for all the help!

    http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9776/tpanel938letenginepanel.jpg

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #498030
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27 Vet:

    Good day!!

    Per your request the cockpit layout of the Let 410 HR-AUQ in better times!

    You are certainly correct again… there was no fire or major explosion at the point of impact. HR_AUQ did circle the area and used some 20 minutes of fuel out of the required 40 minutes for the return flight. The actual amount of fuel loaded on board at San Pedro Sula for the 40 minutes flight is in the hands of the main investigating team at Tegucigalpa.

    We certainly appreciate your inputs on this tragic accident. We feel that we owe to the crew, Pax and relatives an accurate account of what happened. Additionally, there are other LET-410s & pilots still flying all over Honduras!!

    Tks for the time and attention again. Photo via Nel Mejia.

    http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6074/hrauqcock1.jpg

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #498051
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    Angel:

    Good day!!

    Tks for posting the pictures. I’m sure they are going to be of help with the investigation. You are confirming that the aircraft 1st hit the ground and skidded into the tree area. Hence, the different bent angle of the props.

    If you have more shots/angles of the propellers, engines/Throttles and the red switch covers (Engine Settings/Pic #3 2nd set)) plz let us know. If you have a picture of the hill itself from a distance that would be appreciated also.

    Tks in advance!!

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #498207
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27Vet:

    FYI:

    p.s The poss area of impact.

    Lat 13′ 55′ 25 02 Degrees N

    Lon 87″ 16′ 32 40 Degrees W

    in reply to: Let 410 fatal accident in Honduras : 14 souls lost #498209
    fah619
    Participant

    Let 410 accident in Honduras

    27Vet:

    Good day!

    You are correct, they were flying VOR DME for Ryw 2. The picture included shows what they should had seen once out of the fog/clouds. Something drastic happened some 3.5 NM back south. Gust winds in their flight path area were reported at apprx 40 Kts. A preliminary report not yet confirmed mentioned that the FO (RIP) said before going west “that one engine was out.”. They are some questions also about the proper setting of the altimeter. Photo via http://www.pprune.org.

    Both CVR and Toncontin ATC transmissions/recordings during the last minutes of flight have not been released to the public yet.

    Tks for the info & inputs. We are getting into the perimeter of this tragic accident.

    http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3728/rwy02.jpg

Viewing 15 posts - 211 through 225 (of 336 total)