What about when you have to escort, and visually ID a target? What happens when that bear bomber is carring a white noise jammer? Or a cyber war payload? Do think the Chinese would hesitate to jamm or bring down a bird over the East China sea?
So what happens when you merge?
How do.you not run into other planes turning and burning, if the operator is sitting in a trailer in creech, looking at the fight through a straw?
The X-32B was _not_ inferior to the X-35B for the following reasons:
1. Neither of the X-32 prototypes were built with production quality materials. Lack of autolayup looms meant their experimental shops had to hand-lay the thermoplastic composite skins which led to problems with differential heating in the autoclave which bubbled up ridges along the panel overlays. Buying an autowinder for an experimental prototype (i.e. paying for tooling, twice) was not affordable and thus, after multiple failures, the jet’s wing skins were redone in a thermoset composite which was 20% heavier. Add to this that the X-32 used ‘unibody’ techniques by which the wing skins were mechanically fastened to the airframe and you have major problems with the design weight tolerances as well as fabrication and assembly using things like longer screws on the thicker skins (and we are talking about 1,500 of them so it’s not a minor thing).
2. The X-32 didn’t meet other specs which the USN, as they often do to sabotage particular designs they don’t like, changed, halfway through the prototype manufacturing process. The original specs were within the capabilities of the X-32, even as _both_ specs for WOD and control power were beyond those of the X-35C, a fact which, in hindsight is obvious (I like to brag that I saw it ahead of time as one of the earliest critics of the JSF) in the design of the Lockheed prototype without such things as a working weapons bay or full length landing gears, mounted in the wingroots.
These were NOT engineering impossibilities which required ‘advanced technology’ to model or create. Rather they were explicit weight savings and manufacturing simplification approaches which allowed the X-35A/B and C to avoid such issues as the four-times-fixed wingroot lap joints whose later integration with particularly the STOVL model’s roll posts ended up costing the jet, not just so much weight in the PWSC variant as to be functionally non-CDR passable, but also the entire concept of easy manufacture using quickmate joints between pre-built subassemblies.
The point here being that the Boeing Preferred Weapons System Concept design would have had production quality skins, directly bonded to the structure, and a cropped-swept, supercritical wing design which would have traded about 1/3rd of the delta’s total area for a lighter, deeper, tighter, airfoil without as much wetted area but with far more fuel space as well as a slightly longer span and more lowspeed lift enhancement droops on the TE to solve approach speed and adverse sink rate/attitude problems behind the boat.
All of which would have made the short-span STOVL jet more than adequately able to meet it’s direct thrust STOVL requirements as it would have been half the wingspan.
i.e. The F-35 is what it is because the X-35 was a façade built around a fraud which included NONE of the operational engineering features that would have made the jet unable to pass even it’s X-jet evaluation phase, particularly the STOVL metrics, had they been suitably ‘productionized’ (as indeed they were on the preceeding YF-22). The F-32 was what it was because the Feds decided to change the specs to make it fail (and even then it was a close run thing with BOTH companies ‘passing’ minimum threshold requirements to prove their concepts…).
3. The X-32 had massive amounts of spare power. To support STOVL, the F119-PW-614 engine had an ENORMOUS fan on it. Even bigger than that which went on the eventual F135 to try and make up for the piggish qualities of the Lockheed aircraft. This resulted in up and away subsonic performance that was closer to the F-22 (admittedly IRT vs. Burner) than the F-16, as a function of subsonic acceleration and instantaneous vs. sustained turn. The F119-PW-611 was indeed a 28,000lbf/43,000lbf engine with just enough thrust on the front post to look pretty in STOVL. But the F119-PW-614 was a 33,000lbf/54,000lbf engine which absolutely blew the socks off the sexier X-35 where it counted as a turn and burn EM platform.
The trade however was fuel consumption and weight/balance issues. STOVL on the X-32 put the engine at a midpoint like an Airacobra which meant an overly long jetpipe, rather like you see on F-86s or MiG-15s. This was useless dead weight behind the CG in the design which, combined with the dual instead of quadpost, direct thrust, STOVL (very weak pitch control nozzle/liftscreen/roll-ducts) meant that the aircraft was not as stable in the hover. Yet that massive VL thrust requirement had to be there, leaving the jet’s TSFCs sucking down JP like a drunk locked overnight in a distillery as a function of stochimetrics necessary to keep sufficient rpms on the core to torque the spools on that big fan. Fan thrust which was actually pretty useless in the cruise part of the envelope as the jet approached transonics (this is the case with every turbofan and is nothing new, pilots of the then-new F-14 complained that the TF30 engines with almost 1,500lbf more thrust than the J79s they were used to on the Phantom were in fact ‘weak kneed’ as they crossed the .9 Mach threshold).
CONCLUSION:
If common sense rather than aesthetic sensibilities had prevailed, two readily identifiable conclusions would have been reached on the X-Plane contest:A. The economics of ‘one winner’ political greed were utterly incompatible with national needs as the proper sustainment of the industrial base as _competitive_ sellers of modern fighters to the services. Particularly the USAF which had a huge requirement to replace the F-16 fleet could as easily have bought different airframes as engines when that requirement further spilled over into the F-15 and A-10 mission areas with drastically different performance requirements to the Viper followon.
Lack of competition has led to the total corruption of the F-35 acquisition process, from the dropping of the ‘unnecessary’ redundant engine to the failure to hold to the rigors of the law (Nunn McCurdy, the F-35 is _not_ ‘absolutely necessary’ to the modern defense posture, there are multiple alternative options) and even to the honesty with which other, fill force and Congressionally compliant, unmanned programs were actively sabotaged to remove them from consideration as JSF replacements (J-UCAS the ‘too expensive’ program which the USAF cancelled on the eve of the GWOT because it was a perfect match to COIN CAS loitering flight in SWA, something which the F-35 is not).
B. Neither jet was production representative.
The Boeing PWSC design would have been entirely competitive with the STOVL and a likely overmatch to the CTOL and CVTOL requirements with a new flying configuration and production level composites. The Lockheed JSF is as you now see it. Three different airplanes masquerading under the same name, each with sufficiently different design metrics to sabotage the other in terms of acceptable weight bloat vs. structural and weapons carriage restrictions, each stealing engineering design time from the others, greatly prolonging the delay before service due to LM’s simple inability (say: greed as the refusal to pay for and train up, despite record profits) to provide adequate engineering support to each individual airframe as it’s own unique development pathway. Things like the weapons bay, relocation of AMAD auxiliaries, wingroot support and avionics integration all suffered because the X-jet was designed without these gallon-in-pint-pot features included.PWSC would have made these differences obvious and given Boeing the clear edge as the simpler design (it truly is one airplane, despite having different wingspans and a strap-on STOVL module) with better mass-manufacturing production experience base as well as Boeing’s HUGE overall engineering base.
Whether the JSF, as a subsonic, <550nm, strike fighter that is more F-117 than F-16/18 is what this country needs is another question. But it was a fool’s errand to choose such a large production commitment based on preliminary design constructs which were neither production representative for configuration nor anywhere’s near (materials, avionics, structures) complete in their supporting systems development. CBO and GAO both warned of this, starting as early as 1997, stating that concurrency was an risk that was not simply overarching but largely undefined as the jets detail design itself was incomplete before about 2002-2003.
Finally, a question in trade: Does anyone have any imagery of the proposed F-32 targeting FLIR? I have been told it was in an extendible fairing on the fuselage bottom, rather like that of the F-106 IRST but would like to know if any engineering drawings were made up or if the FLIR thimble that is sometimes seen in early photos of the 737 AFL is production representative? I am after pictures.
Thanks- Lop Eared Galoot.
Ok sir, I can’t help but to think your disdain for Lockheed has clouded your judgment.
I will attempt to help you see the light:
1. The main fan face was exposed when a radar blocker wasn’t covering it. Which is a killer for VLO
2. The blocker hurt supersonic performance. So you had to choose to either have the blocker on for vlo or, off for mach.
3. Direct list has always ran the risk of hot gas ingestion. The X-32 was no exception, even have a incident happen on the 1st VL.
4. Form usually follows function. I truly believe that if a plane looks good it will fly good. Generals are human after all, and when they name your plane Monica Lewinsky it cant be good.
5. If I can recall the bomb bay was an odd design.
6. Im not sure the wing planform could have met Navy KPP for bring back and trap.
7. Like we mentioned before the F-35 has reached 50+ degrees Aoa and a moderate super-cruise at mach 1.2 That is hardly a straight and level.only modern F-117 analog
In fact sir we did have a 3 way competition, and Lockheed won.Are they perfect? No! Have the built the world best fighter to date? Yes
Im sorry let me clarify since A 747 with passengers isnt really unmanned.
I meant a 747 with no trained pilots.
Only automatic systems, and remote controls.
jet engine does not mean supersonic.
this is very limited capability at very high cost.
it is being caputured with country in embargo for decades. the other is I said very limited thing. its not even good for fighting rebels let alone proper force.
these things are not cheap relative to capability.
there is neither bomber nor fighter UCAV in prototypes and by time it enter service jamming technology will progress enough that it will be even more useless.
it does not mean it can do anything practical. can it launc 300km range antiship/anti radiation missile.?
its very light weight and short range. 21st century battlefield mean big bombers with longest range sensors and missile that enable to destroy fighters on the ground.
So we wont make civiy airliners UAVs, but we are willing to trust UAVs with all military missions? What about nuke delivery? What about cas danger close totally automated?
That story is in aviation week front page.
You were a bit too hasty.
Only after over a week. LoL Bill frequents this board. Maybe I encouraged him.
The biggest mil aviation story in town, and not even a whisper from aviation week.
Whats the story behind that?
At least as long as the outdated ITAR regulations exist.
So can we all agree that Europe as a whole will cede market share to The US Russians, and Chinese? When the neighbors get the New Su-50, J-31 and F-35 in large quantities and at ccompetitive prices, will Euro-canard s still be a good deal?
Remember one more thing. All of those so called prototypes flew. And most would have still out classed a Typhoon. Its rumored that YF-23 supercruised above mach 2. This isnt about rah rah America is great. Im asking how Europe lost its mojo. And can they get it back?
Maybe if you spelt aircraft names properly as mrmalaya pointed out (rafael, griphen, griffen, tanaris) and didn’t mix production planes with prototypes, and didn’t bring Iran into the picture, and er, made more sense then you would get taken more seriously?
You can’t expect to start topics like “Russian mil can’t build light fighters” or “European mil can’t build next gen fighters”, and be Mr Popular!
What difference does a production plane or prototype make, on this discussion? My point was that Europe has neither.
The UAV programs are nice, but look at the planforms. They are loitering strike assets, not top end fighters. My point stands, sans butchering of European fighter names.
The F-35 is supposed to go operational in a few months time. If in an emergency war situation things could be rushed. The Chinese are only a few years out. Not to mention the U.S. has operational experience with stealth and tactics for 30+ years now. What has to happen to make many European countries, invest more in self defense, short of invasion?!
What happened to American Mil aviation is next. IM Going to discuss how we will only be able to afford 12 7th generation fighters at some point.
QUOTE=mrmalaya;2228318]I don’t really. And certainly don’t want to upset you, but you need to try extra hard to be nice on the web because its so easy to come across in a different light to that intended.
That is all I said last time and its all I’m saying now.
Incidentally will you be starting a “What happened to US military aviation?” thread or is your curiosity just confined to what you perceive as Americas rivals?
For some people inside of Europe, being lumped together is a false position to take. France, the UK, and Sweden have active offensive air programmes for the future that aren’t reliant on the F35. Motivation for other countries is complex after that and certainly is not covered by your question.
IMHO:)[/QUOTE]
http://theaviationist.com/2014/02/25/mysterious-bae-replica/ersonally, If it was up to me I would offer the BAE replica as the design to save The European fighter business.
I would offer co development for both the French, and Euro-Fighter.
Try to be civil old man. You referred to Gripen as griffin last time you chose to pay us a visit too. Calling Rafale a Rafael and Gripen a griffin suggests you need to either keep your auto-correct in check, don’t care how the non US kit is spelt or both.
Malaya, not only have you launched unprovoked attacks against me several times, But any response I give is skewed as uncivil. You seem to aggressively assault people who don’t agree with your world view
May I ask why you have a personal issue with me? Im sensitive.
well yes interceptors are needed to control your airspace but at least one of the flyable 5th generation designs are in fact worse
of an interceptor than the current European airforces employ
Because you have proof of this? The fighter in question cruises at mach 1.2 just like a griffen