Hi Peter,

while I am not sure for actual positioning within the lanc. for the SDO ( Special Duties Operator)…the fact that the ABC equipment was HUGE, it weighed 604.75 lbs and took a total of 3,000 man-hours to install in a Lancaster, and had three 7 ft. long antennas, 2 of which where located between the W.Ops. Blister and the Mid Upper Turret ( the third was located below the nose and to the right). With reading the descriptions of the unit, with three transmitters, the receiver and associated “screen” etc.it seems logical that the system was more or less kept together, and far too large to sit in the W/Ops. or Nav’s crew areas…..I would likely say that the “rest bed” between the forward and rear Wing Spars was maybe removed and accommodation for the system and SDO maybe found there?….allowing for easier access to the antennas above ( wiring) as well as all the power cables etc. and maybe keep the SDO a little farther away from the crew chatter etc while he was scanning and translating in his head?…..

That said, they had the H2S operator / equipment in sharing the Nav. table and seated beside and to the front of the Nav. who knows…very little seems to have been recorded about ABC due to the Secrets acts i guess….

I’ll keep looking anyway….. really good question

you sure ?
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K_T4M-nA6JYC&pg=PA604&lpg=PA604&dq=delilah+missile+50+km&source=bl&ots=uQFtLuo10A&sig=CG1u-pNuXBLetqOUnEYnkewm-2k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kBaqVP77KIOwUfvTgrgL&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=delilah%20missile%2050%20km&f=false
http://www.iaf.org.il/5642-35312-en/IAF.aspx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/delilah.htm

how does that different from a missiles ?

actually ALARM can wait for enemy to turn on radar

and what make your info more right than mine?

You know what TRY going to the Manufacturer’s info……..http://http://imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=65740

OH, I don;t know….why is mine right?….maybe it isn;t I don;t know……but I guess we can always ask others to confirm……

Ah, YEH, ALARM can climb up 13 KM’s and wait till the radar turns back on, IF it looses a contact it had…..and that doesn;t mean it waits for hours for it….it is a temporary climb and “look” for the Radar coming back online, then it re attacks……..

and how is a fully controllable UAV that can attack different than a missile?…really?….the UAV can be re landed if no target becomes available….it is therefore recoverable…..can it attack and destroy the target by crashing INTO the target?… sure…the differences are very apparent, seemingly to many others….not sure why you can’t see the differences….bottom line, it is a UAV, a DRONE….and NOT a missile…..

Again…your fantasy about what Delilah is and can do….easily answered by looking PAST wikpedia……..

RIGHT from IMI website:

“DELILAH AL-Aircraft Launched (Fixed Wing) Stand-Off Surface Attack Missile

Description:

Developed for the Israeli Air Force (IAF), the combat proven DELILAH is an advanced electro-optically guided, stand-off weapon system, designed to provide unique precision strike capabilities against high value, re-locatable and time critical targets. DELILAH has been developed by IMI/ASD and the Israeli Air Force to meet the most challenging requirements of strike missions, offering unique capabilities including ‘pull-up’, ‘go-around’ and ‘re-attack’ capabilities, derived from the weapon’s extended range and loitering capability.

DELILAH allows the Launching Aircraft to remain outside of the lethal envelope of modern Medium and Long Range Surface to Air Missiles (SAM), providing air crews with effective, high precision, man-in-the-loop stand-off strike capability.

Flying deep into the enemy territory, as far as 250 Km, the weapon relies on sophisticated, on-board flight control and navigation systems providing fully autonomous navigation and flight handling.

Technical Specifications:
• Max Weight…………..187 Kg
• Length………………….2.71 m
• Wings Span…………..1.15 m
• Max Range……………250 km

NO where does it say can attack targets moving 50 km/hr. and by the way…it is an awefully BIG cruise missile for attacking a helicopter…lol…and they do have a HELICOPTER Launchable version, a Ship Launched Version and a Ground Launched version as well………

as for your LM’s…look at the “Harop” is….did YOU read the description at all?….”Harop is a loitering munition (LM) system developed in Israel by the MBT Missiles Division of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). The unmanned combat aerial vehicle is also known as the Harpy-2 loitering munitions missile. The drone loiters over the battlefield and attacks the targets by self-destructing into them.”…IT IS A UAV that attacks by flying INTO the target

The ALARM, really?…your comparing a missile that goes up 13 km. until it can reacquire it’s target?…hardly the same as flying around for hours aimlessly
“ALARM is a fire-and-forget system, with an added loiter capability. In loiter mode, ALARM will, when launched, climb to an altitude of 13 km. If the target radar shuts down, the missile will deploy a parachute and descend slowly until the radar lights up. The missile will then fire a secondary motor to attack the target”

as for the AIM 120 D AMRAAM…sorry info I have says clearly that MAXIMUM Range is 72,000 Meters = 72 Km’s NOT your info saying 185 km……..big difference! Aim 54 PHOENIX LR AAM ( Long Range AAM’s) ( no longer in service ) had a Max Range of 190 Km, TOTAL BS on your R-33 Range..try 160 KM!…Now, your Russian EXTREME Long Range Missile the The Novator KS-172 AAM-L (also known as R-172) ..yeh, it does have a 400 Km. range, it is also 24.3 feet long, 20 inches in diameter and weighs 1, 650 Lbs. certainly a monster of a missile……the Novator K-100 has a range of at least 200 km…UNKNOWN if more, and it is also a huge beast, 1,650 lbs, 16 inch diameter and 19.7 feet long and NONE of the K-100 and KS – 172’s are in service, NONE in use by Russia and India seems to be only interested party and are both derivatives of the BUK Anti Aircraft Missile.

Good luck in building your STEALTH missile that will fly around aimlessly ……..

anyway, I don;t care……just a waste of time answering you…….you argue everything with me….and someone else tells you the same thing…and you accept it, ( well sort of )……..

As “Bring it On” said ….”Let me put it this way, If such a weapon (your loitering missile) is not developed in the coming decade or even 2 all you need to do is re-visit this thread and you’d know why “…….kinda says it all……

seriously you have problem with reading do you?
1) as i have explained the missiles is the idea for future not now
2) all air to air missiles can miss not just this particular missiles
3) the missiles is not fully autonomous, as i have stated before, it have 2 way data link and EO seeker, control in the same principle as SLAM, NSM, AGM-62, Gbu-15 so basically they are guide to target by datalink just like normal AAM, the difference is that they are slower but also more sneaky
4) the long range is not the main objective, main objective of using tuborjet engine is that the missiles will have low IR signature thus harder for enemy fighters to detect, evade, the long range is simply a bonus due to the fact that subsonic engine is simply more efficient than rocket in term of range
5) you said there are no Loitering weapon that cruise on the sky until they find the target but there are actually alot, for example : Harpy, ALARM, Delilah, Harpo
6) and among the missiles i have listed JSOW, NSM are stealth
7) also, not everyone totally disagree with my idea, different people may suggest thing that they think may work better, but you are the only one keep screaming, represent the idea in your own way to make it look bad, dont read any explanation (all due to butt hurt from F-35 thread)

Listen…I am NOT screaming…your idea is supported by your absurd claims about other munitions and ” as i have explained the missiles is the idea for future not now “…well it is NOTHING now or then….your posting on a internet forum…not some stellar design bureau for Munitions ….

No lets address your claims….

2 way datalink like on the AGM 62 Walleye? your using an UNPOWERED guided munition ( so it had guidance avionics but no power ) using a Television guidance system dating from the 1960″s?…seriously it’s so old it was replaced by the AGM 65 MAVERICK..or perhaps the AGM 84E SLAM ( Standoff Land Attack Missile ) which used the datalink from the AGM 65 Maverick system….that was developed for the US Navy? also retired from service in 2000 and replaced by the AGM 84 H SLAM-ER ( expanded response) which had a better range and penetration. SO, your “future missile” will use technology that is already outdated, and NO NEW tech. is ready for it?…….nice…

Delilah?, ALARM well those are direct STATIONARY GROUND targeting Cruise Missiles…..that isn;t loitering…..that is flying to a direct target identified by the launchers…if you honestly think that Cruise Missiles “Loiter” waiting to identify a target…I am sorry, your simply not getting it…..

OK now the AGM – 154 JSOW ) Joint Stand Off Weapon…….which is a GLIDE BOMB of medium range…which is exactly 130 km IF released from a HIGH ALTITUDE, and only 22 km if from a low release and uses GPS / INS for guidance and an Infra red seeker for terminal guidance……BUT it is a glide bomb….hardly what is considered to be “Stealth”….and the NSM is a Norwegian Cruise Missle……again for A2G……..and NOT Stealth!…just a cruise missile…..

Your use of throwing around lots of names for Munitions isn’t helping you at all…….NOT ONE is an air to air missile, they are all either bombs or cruise missiles and everyone is for Air to Ground deployment and NONE are LOITER nor STEALTH weapons….

so, Can I read….YES, I have read every sentence you have written in this thread, and NOT ONE makes any damn sense….

Even the title to your thread, “STEALTH AAM, Why NOT?”…well you’ve been told why not…but you keep on blustering along, throwing around names of other munitions totally nothing like what you are proposing….it is obvious that you are NOT an Engineer nor a designer…and you are posting ideas for some futuristic weapon, “Not now, in the future”….so why bother…..post on a Star Wars forum,….same thing, make believe and dream land…

Your BUTT HURT about the fact that your Country will NEVER see an F35…..so you come on a forum and carry on… who cares sunshine…..

and you think that “enemy” ( again you mean U.S / NATO ) planes detect most missile threats sent at them by the engines IR signature?…..not the various lock on’s by Radar etc….after all, we ARE talking about an A2A missile right, not a A2G Cruise missile…….and it was YOU that brought up the range of 700 – 800 KM’s and that it would LINGER until it “found” a target……so it is solely YOU that has brought this into where it is……a dreamland fantasy of yours about some “futuristic” missile…”not now, in future”….lol……whatever……. enjoy…… I AM DONE…..

and I will repeat…I Know how to read, and by all means have both the ability as well as the intelligence to absorb and understand exactly what is being said….and again, it is your posts that have driven this to the point it is at…….YOU asked the question, set the stage for your “fantasy” missile and then didn;t like hearing that it was a silly idea…..and some one else just told you AGAIN that it isn;t going to happen……..try to listen for once…..

so GOOD BYE, Dasvadanya Commrade…..