you have a small problem in the fact that I speak about countries that do go and fight wars alone (as they wish), which are basically USA and, more recently, France (in Africa)… nobody else went fighting far away on its own for tghe last 30 years (and if you want to add the UK, you’d have to go back to falklands to see them going at war alone and it even wasn’t “just some remote country”, it was their territory) all the others just follow when it seems politically interesting (can manage a good argument or keep doing their “ally (someone said “pet”? ) job.

So “being at war alone” is a perspective that Canada is pretty much sure not to meet, with their political and geographical situation

what they mostly need is a reliable fighter, ideally two engines (safer over vast regions in the north) with long range, and good capabilities in “lone operations”, as up north they won’t be flying in complex war systems but will most certainly have to be in a single patrol and rely on themselves

Too Cool, while I agree with some of what you said, especially about what Canada may need in regards to Operations in the north,

I have to say, that despite what many Americans think, the USA hasn;t fought a “war on their own” since the Spanish / American war. War of Independance saw the French involved, War of 1812 ( Americans alone but didn;t quite pan out), American Civil War ( well that one saw Britain involved to a degree)..yep the Spanish / American war….WW1, Nope, late in and as an Ally, WW2 Nope Late in and as an Ally, Korea, Nope part of multi National force, Vietnam, Nope others where involved as well, first France, then USA, and Australia..can;t count the Panama invasion nor Grenada, OH, Gulf War 1…Nope part of the Coalition, Gulf 2?…nope, coalition, how about Afghanistan, Nope, Part of the ISAF that had some where more than 30 Nations involved.

Now, where as one could point out that the USA instigated or started a number of these conflicts, one can never say that they have fought alone at all.

Now, even France going to Mali required some international help to get it happening….I believe that there was some assistance with Strategic airlifts provided….now as France deemed itself capable of dealing with the situation on the ground, they didn;t ask others to the “party”.

Bottom line, NO Nation in the Allied / NATO / Western World is capable of going to war alone…those days are long gone, and I believe that although the US may “lead” in cases like the Gulf Wars, they didn;t do it alone…Most of NATO seemed to be there along with a slew of Middle eastern “Friendlies”….

and if joining in with coalition operations or with NATO missions means that all the other Nations are “pets”, I would take offense to that, as I am sure most French, Brits, Italians or any other National would as well…

Bombardier planes are entirely based on imported components. 25% currency plunge impact is not taking into account and neither is uncertainity about CSeries. Tax evasion is top of that.

snow removal and free health care lead to higher taxes ?. I would say plunging currency will lead to even higher taxes as imported medicine will cost more. you are assuming that gigantic corporate and government sector in US does not provide health care.

US is moving very fast away from expensive Canadian energy.

You know what…..replying to your idioticy is just a waste of the thread……it’s gotten so far off track now it’s humourous.

Bottom line, you obviously know little about health care, health insurance or even Obama Care…..you don;t think Health Care costs?….ask any nation that has it…the UK for example……

The US is ALWAYS looking for options regarding energy and oil…….so be it…they also have the worlds biggest useage..so if you think that they will be able to reach self sustainment, all the power to you…..

By the way, the aero industry across the world generally uses other companies in any number of countries to make parts for aircraft……even Lockheed Martin for the F35…..does that make the plane any less?..it’s called BUISINESS……

anyway, I am done arguing with you……not worth my time nor worth further cluttering the thread…..

Bombardier is $2 stock and that due to trains and Chinese. practically worthless company. infact Hong Kong and Southern Chinese traders have sent housing market through the roof that engineers/scientist are not get paid well enough. that’s why you see companies foldup and cannot expand. RIM/black berry compared to Apple. its single commodity country.

I’m sorry, you seem to think that Canada has ONLY ONE commodity that we trade, that is simply not true. Canada has a Commodity BASED Currency, but that currency is based on MANY facets and commodities.

Bottom line, Canada is far from a single commodity nation. Even this F35 program is reliant on Canadian exports of manufactured and technological/electronic commodities, as Canadian firms build various parts for the F35.

So for you to assume that the Oil Sands is all Canada exports is just as stupid as it gets. Sorry that fact doesn;t apply to your assertations. I have no idea where your from or why you seem to be working so hard to run Canada down, but your facts are wrong.

Which Housing Market are you trying to refer too?….that in Newfoundland, or Toronto or maybe White Horse, how about Iqaliut?….the housing market in Toronto is flourishing and has been for decades….they are building more condos than can be counted and the city is growing expondentially. And ANY Chinese or Hong Kong “traders” in Canada would be payed FAR FAR better than they would be in China, as well they recieve Health Care, etc. and have a far higher standard of living than most Nations in the world, in fact Canada rated in the top 10 or 15 Nations in the world for many years.

and sorry Bombardier is hanging on at around $4 a share………and I only used them as an example of a Canadian commodity Company that manufactures ALOT of various exports and domestic used items……trains YES, as they got a HUGE order for new trains for France, but Chinese?………..seriously….

your BS has nothing to do with the F35 and wheither Canada should get them or not…..

Its not wrong choice word commodity. IF US completely become energy independent from Canadian energy than without Vast US market Canada cannot sustain energy for itself at reasonable price and with that all the industrial exports will be gone. that’s why it single commodity country.

sorry there fella, problem with getting info from the internet is it’s only as good as what’s put in…….

CANADA is NOT in anyway, shape or form a “single commodity” Nation. Firstly Canada has more than just the Alberta Oil Sands….there is also substantial drilling of oil in Alberta and the Yukon and North West Territories…also we have substantial oil fields on the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. We also produce ( mine) huge amounts of the worlds diamonds ( mostly industrial but fine diamonds as well). We have Gold mining, Nickle, Uranium and coal mining across Canada. We have HUGE amounts of trees and produce massive amounts of the hard and soft woods that are sold into the USA. We also have substantial water supplies. All told our Natural resources far out weigh the amounts that the USA could ever hope to produce. That said, we also have manufacturing ability and sell alot to the USA. Canada has for generations been a huge international producer of food and crops, especially wheat and corn. By the way, we also manufacture Ethanol ( from corn ) and produce so much electricity from the vast hydro electric projects , combined with the Nuclear facilities and less efficient coal burning sites, that electricity is actually GIVEN away free of charge to New York State and several other States close to the boarder as well…We have great and expansive industrial manufacturing as well, just to name a few…Bombardier ( now international, and into planes, snowmobiles, trains, recreational vehicles etc sold world wide as well as “few” semi well known aircraft, like the LEAR, Challenger and Global jets, commercial planes like the CRJ and the Q400 Nex Gen) as well as de Havilland Canada, manufacturer of the Dash 7 and Dash 8 and Twin Otter Aircraft.

Canada is neither economically dependant on any one source nor lacking in export / import opportunties, world wide, and maintain one of the highest standards of living, education and professional training in the world.

Far from a single commodity country.

SO..even without the US buying oil from the Oil Sands, Canada is just fine, we can off set the expense by simply down sizing or shutting it down oil sands production, as Canada has enough other options to keep it going. And in all honesty the chances of the USA EVER becoming self sufficient in oil needs is almost nil….they will ALWAYS be buying from other sources. It needs to be mentioned that Canada is NOT totally reliant on the Oil Sands, simply because it has NOT been being worked that long!. Canada survived just fine before it was started and will be ok even without it.

I guess, no europ nation will do deep strikes. But we don’t know the ideas of the European Defence Agency.

For air policing it is useful to have an airplane with good loiter capability. So it is from my point of view better and cheaper to have an aircraft which can loiter 4 hour instead of having 2 airplanes with loter each 2 hour.

OH, I agree that loitering time is great, however, have you ever looked at a map of Europe?…there are few Nato European nations where “loitering” for 4 hours wouldn;t have the planes literally flying around the entire country, some, several times…

European air space is far to compact and small to worry as much about “loitering” time even for air policing, I mean how long does a nation keep it;s planes in the air? is it good practice considering lifetimes of airframes, operating costs and maintenance costs to simply keep planes flying around and around a small European nation for 4 hours? without a “threat” to respond to and / or identify, escort away?..

I mean, even by the pitifully slow speeds of WW2 bombers, flying 4 hours put you across more than a few different nations right? so what will 4 hours flying, even at say 2 – 3 times the speed, put you?…..far outside your Nations borders, OR flying around like a complete dolt in circles…

Even for ” strike” missions, Europe is HARDLY the consideration for “Deep Strikes”. The only logical exception may be strikes into Russia itself, which opens a whole new kettle of fish, over flying sovergn Nations to get to Russia, large land mass, air defenses etc. So, again, IF that where to happen, even at a FULL NATO level, the situation would NOT be requiring every NATO Nation to send “deep strike” aircraft…defense of NATO member Nations Air spaces etc now become paramount…and again, the longer Loiter times importance drops. Not to mention if one actually looks at the NATO membership list and then looks at the current airframes that equip said Nations, there is No logical way of getting a common airframe in place, the needs and expectations are simply far to different.

Now as for the assertation of ONE “better” plane that can stay airborne for for 4 hrs vs. 2 or 3 planes that can stay airborne for 2 hours?….really? again with the size and relatively compact airspaces of Nations, especially more “landlocked” European Nations, having one plane up for 4 hours is stupid, better to have more, cheaper, smaller quick fighters READY to get airborne. And has been shown with say the F35, one “better” plane will NEVER be “cheaper” , look at the costs for, operating costs of the F35, and again, better for whom, in which way? simply put IF Nato nations for the most part are NOT doing “deep strike missions”, have realtively small air spaces to “police”, or even Big(ger) Nations like Canada or say Germany simply don;t have the mandate to be worrying about “deep strikes” . The “loiter time” becomes MORE important for a nation like Canada with such massive land and airspaces to patrol / police. However, the use of A2A and drop tanks also eliviates a substantial portion that initial “loiter time”, as “stealth patrolling” is NOT a realistic tasking.

Despite NATO having an “all for one, one for all” type mandate, militarily, the fact remains that each commits such a small part of their capability to NATO, ( look at the current /recent missions..LIBYA, Italy sent 8 planes, Spain 4, Denmark 6, Germany 0, Canada 6, etc. so one can see that there is little in the way of Uniform commitment). I mean lets face it…despite Nato being active in patrolling the Baltic area, AND Germany agreeing to send planes to help out, for the most part, the Luftwaffe has the bulk of it;s capablities grounded and stored. Are they looking for a “new” plane? NO, they are still waiting on all their EF’s to be delivered, with upgrades and updates to keep those new EF’s going until say 2040, do you really think that “Nato” could agree on a plane for some speculated needs and capabilities 20 – 30 years from now?

Mr Langley – whatever merit may be present in your statements is not improved by your persistent use of ‘all-caps’ to emphasise words. Why not use normal capitalisation? It is much easier to read.

Yes, I am aware that my “forum Etiquette” is improper , I have been subjected to such critisism before, both for the capitalization and puncuation. Thank you for pointing that out yet again.

Sad that ones merit in their points and posts would be judged even partially on simple puncuation or use of capitalization to enhance ones point. I shall at this point remove myself from this sorted discussion. I simply found it ironic and humourous that so many posters would assume that Israeli politics would be anything even close to resembling the farcical state of affairs in the USA, or Canada for that matter, without even the consideration that so many variables where different.

ONE of the reasons is the denial to acess source codes
others? influence US politics in middle east, cost/capability?

Influence of US Politics in the Middle East?……you mean like the Iran Nuclear agreement that Israel has been very vocal against?…..the one the US is pushing?…the fact that yet again the US is in the Middle East bombing ISIS etc. in Syria and Iraq…the same US that was condemning Israel a matter of months ago for Israel being in the West Bank again?…..you mean the tensions that seem to be building between Israel and the USA for some time?……Yeh, I can see that maybe having some effects……

Certainly costs, as has been said…The “Purchasing Nations KNOW what it costs”……

anyway…it doesn;t matter..because speculating on an internet forum isn;t going to change anything….Israel has made a decision right?…..just like other Nations do and will…..despite what is said on here……