Jay LangleyWhatever may be the case.
I will simply bow out of the F35 lovefest that this is, it has surely been an eye opening experience to see how ONE man made piece of equipment can so inspire a blinding love for it or a dislike for it.
I am sure that the regardless of anything that I post or don;t, the insatiable fetishism that goes on for this plane will continue. I am pleased that Canada has been called awake to the scam and the lies that it has inspired in our own Government, and that no such back door deals will be occuring to bilk Canadians out of fiscal responsability towards replacing the CF188’s…..a great plane that has served well for decades.
lets find the next one to do so. But the F35 isn;t it.
I happily bow out of this forum and leave it to know it alls and armchair heros
Jay LangleyYou are a native English speaker, right?
Consider for a moment that some here don’t even speak English as their first language and are nonetheless able to put together something recognizable as complete sentences.
WHERE did I type “word Salad”?……..
If I choose to use a simplistic form of structure on an Internet forum, so be it. I am not exactly working on a thesis now am I? Please accept my sincere regret that my literary skills on a FORUM have fallen below the expected standards of the Forum’s Literary Police.
Jay LangleyWere you a pilot in the RCAF. If not, you can understand why your touting of your military service doesn’t really help your case.
Call it sixth generation if you like. Though I can’t see how the label will help in combat against the PAK FA.
And a superb radar, EW suite, MMI, DAS and sensor fusion. Also, excellent endurance and high AoA performance. But that’s about it.
And here I though the lack of dual engine redundancy trotted out against the F-35, would have also applied to the Gripen E. The Brazilians are paying about $150M each for their partly indigenized Gripens. It’ll be interesting to see what a fully domesticated Gripen E costs Canada, without the low-cost advantages enjoyed by Brazil.
Try to spin it as a US v Canada thing all you want, the RCAF (rumored to be manned by and staffed with Canadian citizens) will be more interested in the PAK FA v Rafale/Gripen/F-35 thing.
WHY is the PAK FA thing such an issue to you…….by YOUR OWN accord a week ago or so you where saying that the Russians only plan what less than 60 of them?….so that kind of reduces their immediate threat to Canada doesn;t it, I mean with the air filled with F15’s, and F22’s and E/F’s and Rafales and even Gripens……Russia is simply NOT the threat that the old USSR was……..numbers are GREATLY reduced, the Russian people are NOT behind the Russian aggression, and it seems to stem from a core of unstable ex Communists in power positions…..even Gorbechev said this weekend that it is a “new Cold War”…….being REALISTICALLY based or going way over board are two different things……
The number of possible PAK FA’s divided by the expanse of all of NATO and Europe and the numbers of combined aircraft…..even without the F35……the numbers weigh heavily in favour of NATO and the west…….Russia has no allies any more……all the numbers of the Polish, Ukrainian, Yugslav, Czech, East German etc Airforces ADDED to the USSR might are now gone……and in most cases stand AGAINST Russia
Bottom line, Russia doesn;t have the might to go to war anymore……
CHINA is a far more likely threat…..but not in Europe or North America…….it will be in the South China sea areas……..south Pacific maybe…..
Airforce or Army, if you have ever sat through a REAL military Threat assessment lecture and been able to read the Intelligence Briefs…..well, reality might not be as bad as some think……..
So please feel free to sit and stew and fret about the PAK FA’s coming to get you……reality will be lucky to see maybe 50 ever made…….Russia doesn;t have the cash to keep up in another Cold War……like their super new tanks….the Black Eagles….reported to be a huge threat and so many worried about them……..where are they?…..lol…..right cancelled!…due to bankruptcy
Choose threats appropriately and realistically….just like without all the “partners” that got strung into the F35 it would have gone bankrupt years ago…….and Congress would have cancelled the whole thing…….
sorta like the big announcemnent a few months ago that Russia was going to build a NEW BLACK SEA fleet!……..but with what?……..fantasy and wishful thinking……
Jay LangleyWell, I couldn;t care less if internet forum people believe that I served or not…….I did, I have my documentation to prove that…….I NEVER said I was an airforce guy…….I wasn;t I served in Armoured Recce…….
I like anyone else is entitled to opinions…and to be honest I am more than sick of Americans chest thumping and yelling from their soap boxes that they are the only ones that make anything thats good…and that the F35 is so wonderful.
Like I said, I AM CANADIAN….what happens to and in Canada effects me…
the F35 will not now, nor ever be the right choice for Canada, period…..and by far the vast majority of Canadians feel the same and ARE telling the Government just that
the snotty and pathetic attittude with the whole Scorpion thing is just BS…YES, the F35 is way way over priced and doesn;t fill the needs, no used US Navy jets….fine…..how about we just say this…maybe Canada should just shut the damn doors on the USA and deal with the Europeans
and again….just because NO OTHER fighters have been made recently OTHER than the so called Gen 5 planes does NOT deny “access” to a more conventional design being considered Gen 5….LO/VLO may be common to others, but doesn;t become the ONLY criteria does it?
I fell into this stupid F35 thread by accident….I joined here for the HISTORCAL Aviaition threads…..but I wasn;t going to let the constant push for “Canada” to get the F35 and BS of the F35 go un answered
NO ONE unless they ARE a Canadian really cares……the ONLY reason you want to see F35’s here is to point LM owned fingers and say SEE…..I read 50 some odd pages of it before I said a word…none of you care an iota IF the F35’s never fill Canada’s needs, as long as they get sold and make prices cheaper for others…and that is sad, you all care LESS about a Nation, an ALLY, getting the right plane than making sure LM makes their massive profits and carry on their monopoly right…
anyway….carry on……
Canada is only started in shutting down the F35…..the Government will be tarred and feathered over this SECOND BS scam around these F35’s…….THOSE are facts….watch, this week and the following weeks will be filled with Government inquiries and denials and people loosing their jobs
and the F35 is SO WELL NAMED, just like it’s namesake, the P38 Lightning, it is inadequate, over complex and too expensive
Jay Langley…and there is the problem. If they decide they want a 5th generation aircraft they will be accused of writing requirements only the F-35 can meet. There is no way to make some people happy. You can either accept that the Canadian military knows what they want… or assume that they don’t. (obviously most around here are convinced they know better than the Canadian military)
Worthless? Not at all, but the reality is that with 5th generation fighters operational in the US and well into their developments in the US, Russia, and China the days when a 4th generation fighter would be considered a “high-end” solution to a requirement are nearing their end.
From here on out you can expect to see 4th generation fighters competitive only as budget alternatives to newer designs. The Gripen, F-16, and FA-50 may prove competitive in that role, but the Eurofighter, F-15, and Rafale are going to have a much harder time.
I don;t think that I know better than the Canadian Military, I WAS Canadian Military….and PLEASE stop using 5th Generation to mean ONLY the F35………F35 and VLO are NOT the only factors in Gen 5 The Gripen NG IS going to be a Gen 5 plane……simply as it will be the NEWEST designed plane being built…….
SO NO, writing a NEEDS assessment for a Gen 5 aircraft DOES NOT mean ONLY the F35….ONLY , ONLY if there is a specific NEED for “stealth -VLO” is it specific to the F35..lets get that part straight…….IF Canada likewise decided to go with the ( hypothetically) the ADVANCED SH, that TOO would be a 5th Gen plane…..
The ONLY thing the F35 has going for it is that it is the NEWEST and the only STEALTH / VLO offering on the table……..
And believe me when I say YOU and any other American saying that CANADIANS don;t know what Canada needs is just asinine………and the Canadian “military” have NOT had a fair assessment of the offerings out there…because a VERY FEW Top Brass with lucrative LM jobs in their futures have basically decided what THEY want…..no testing, no competetion, no looking at what is best for Canada in long term operation, nor economically nor in industry…sure a few companies build a little for the F35……the Gripen NG has been offered to Canada with FULL Manufacture, manufacture of parts, tech transfer AND upgrades…….now that is a far better deal!…..
So , all that said…..America does NOT KNOW what Canada needs or is best for Canada
and I think the Rafale will have a better chance of getting sales than the EF……simply because of the history France has with the Mirage series AND they are offering a great deal with the Rafale as well with manufacturing and tech transfer etc……
There is line BETWEEN dirt cheap and economically sound…..the Scorpion can stay where it is…..Canada needs a damn capable plane without the over expense and features that are NOT of as much concern in Canadian Service……and despite the fact that none of YOU all seem to appreciate the RCAF and it’s commitments, at least most of the other NATO Nations do…..funny how the US Military SPECIFICALLY asked Canada to send planes and join in the ISIS Mission…..if the RCAF was pathetic, they wouldn;t be requested to be in all these missions would they?….how many Nations DO NOT get asked?……LOTS….lets see, Norway, Italy , Germany, Austria, Spain, Poland, Australia and others have NO planes flying in the Mission…Denmark and Belgium are sending some apparently……..alot of the Nations that where in Afghanistan are not getting involved again.
Jay LangleyThe Gripen ‘Next Generation’ isn’t really next generation, let alone sixth generation.
We’re discussing fighter jets not transport aircraft. Their purpose is to fight other aircraft (aside from strike), so yes it matters what your neighbours are flying because that’s what you may end up fighting in the future.
The RCAF isn’t quite as myopic as that, and that’s why its brass wants to stick with the F-35. Just because you have lots of Bears today, doesn’t mean you’ll only have Bears to contend with in 2030. They’ll be no ‘quick fixes’ available, if the Russians decide to up their game in the Arctic with Su-35s and PAK FAs.
Nearly every major air force in the world with the notable exception of France is or will be inducting 5th generation aircraft. And France, which has no organic threats, will be investing quite significantly in its UCAV program.
You’d have a more principled argument if you were lobbying to abolish the air force altogether. If you’re gearing up for a potential fight, fight to win. If you have no intention of getting into a fight, don’t waste billions to merely go through the motions. For basic air policing, you could look at second hand degraded F-15Cs. Or some forward based Scorpions from Textrons. That’ll ‘do’ the job, if you’re convinced that the job consists of merely waving a flag.
That may be your ‘personal preference’, but the RCAF pilots training for a potential clash against the RuAF would have a whole different take on what they’d rather be sitting in.
P.S. Please use normal punctuation.
YOUR opinions and apparent belief that NOT seeing the F35 in the RCAF is the same as wanting it abolished is foolish and utter BS…….I have SERVED my Nation, I have been deployed, I have lived in the dirty so MY wants will ALWAYS be for a capable, strong Military, including the RCAF BUT, this may be hard to understand, the F35 just doesn;t fit it will never fit and despite your incesent nattering, it won;t be swayed by the Propaganda and fanboyism of an forum.
WHY would Canada even remotely be looking at “fighting” the RuAF? is the USA planning on starting WW3? what the RCAF DOES do in regards to intercepts and ID flights is what Canada needs to do, NOT what anyone else wants them to do…being CAPABLE of defending ones Nation is NOT the same as having a specifically designed First Strike Aircraft, remember that?…what the F35 WAS designed for?…not A2A, NOT being a “Fighter”, just a “stealthy aircraft” to get into and 1st strike some other Nation….all these “other” so called abilities it supposedly has are all add on AFTER the fact…….and does NONE of them that well.
The GRIPEN NG is OBVIOUSLY NOT a Gen 6 plane! IT IS however, the NEXT GENERATION of the design making it however a fully Gen 5 plane…seeing as VLO DOES NOT make a Gen 5 plane but simply WHEN a plane is designed and built, there are NO Gen 6 planes anywhere in the world so your comment is pointless
and really, there is never ANY discussion about what the Neigbours are flying, because the same bunch go on to the PAK FA / T50 thread and run them down, then go to the J21 J31 threads and run them down, the same to the Gripen NG and the Rafale and the EF….then get all upset and “offended” that people could DARE to disagree that F35 is anything short of the next coming of Christ.
That is NOT discussion it is blatant fanboyism and propaganda
believe what you want, bottom line the rest of the world DOES NOT OWE the USA anything.
and in the end, enjoy your F35….The RCAF, and every other Airforce that dare opt out will survive just fine without it
and the suggestion that the “scorpion” could even be considered is utter rubbish…..but the Rafale, the EF or the Gripen NG sure could be, even the SH, maybe even SPECIFICALLY the SH, it is certainly a far better fit, an easier transition for both aircrews AND maintenance Hell, with our current CF188’s now being ON THE JOB till 2025, Canada could even luck out and grab dozens of SH’s right from the US Navy! at bargin basement prices for a better fitting plane for the RCAF
Jay LangleyThat’s an apt analogy actually. If you’re a bookie looking to make ‘collections’, the F-15E is a middleweight boxer you can get on the cheap, EF & Rafale are heavyweights, while the F-35 is a heavyweight packing a revolver. You pay a premium for the latter, but that’s who you want in a sticky situation.
So you equate the VLO to being “the revolver”?………..personally I would prefer the semi auto pistol with 15 rounds………keep the stealth, it’s not needed by everyone……
Jay LangleyBAE: Vampire -> Litening -> Tornado -> Typhoon
Dassault: Mystere -> Mirage III -> Mirage 2000 -> Rafale
Saab: Tunnan -> Draken -> Viggen -> Gripen ( YOU FORGOT GRIPEN NG…it IS happening now)
By your logic….the ONLY thing that makes a Gen 5 aircraft is “VLO”……….because everything else is being updated to equal very closely the abilities in radar, etc of the F35
How is LM’s fault that no other stable has a fifth generation offering to follow up? And looking to buy a VLO fighter when your neighbours are buying VLO jets of their own isn’t ‘tailoring’, its just good caution. Applies to Canada vis a vis Russia, as much as it did to South Korea vis a vis China, Russia & Japan.
NO, it’s NOT “good Caution”…it’s called keeping up with the Joneses……it’s like the guy that NEEDS to go and buy the Mercedes 5 Series…not because it is a good choice for his family of 6 kids….but because the guy ( with NO kids) across the road got one…..NOT a logical choice….just wanting to be seen as on “equal” grounds…….but the guy with 6 kids should be looking at more economic and compatable options…….ones that make sense for HIM……not the neighbour….
Bottom line….Electronics / info Compatability exists NOW even with all the various types being used…..it will NOT change in the future….it will be worked on and will stream as smoothly from type to type as from plane to another plane of the same type….that is Logical……
As Canada has NO military doctrine to operate in a first strike capacity AT ALL…..the “stealth” needed to “penatrate” radar heavy hostile environs is NOT a priority….we seriously need to be able to do as the Legacy CF18 Hornets do…….a lot of everything…..and do them pretty well across the board……sure, I can understand that “stealth” MAY be of benifit in a VLO vs. VLO engagement….but come on reality is it;s NOT happening over Canada……we get Bears, lots of Bears….occasionally a mixed flight ( escorted Bears)…..
In reality, the F35 is simply TO expensive, does NOT do what we need it too as well as others including the CF18 does……it is NOT a logical replacement for the CF18’s……this 5th Gen. issue simply ISN’T that big a deal for most Nations……..a really sound, good, tried and tested and regularily updated Gen 4+ is more than perfect for many Nations……..including Canada…….
Canada does our job…….and VERY WELL..to continue to do that does NOT require the F35…….bottom line, the Government got caught again BS’ing and trying to scam it through…..they are NOT going to be allowed to get away with it……the political outcry will be swift and severe…..and our “Roaming Prime Minister” , when he gets back from China will be hauled up and grilled….the bottom line is that in NO WAY can any say that the F35 is the right, or the economically sound, or the most logical and need filling choice……we don;t need stealth……at all…….if others want it….good for them…….95% of the world’s military aircraft are NON STEALTH…so no it is NOT needed……
Jay LangleyThe SH was designed in the 80’s… Good luck against a T50*.
That’s what I hve been written elsewhere: air Forces shld not look at what plane makes their Nation Engineers enjoy a comfortable life… but what keep their 20 years old pilots alive.
Yes, the gap induced by the 35 put many industries at risk, but such is the game. If you can’t keep up, just fade away and don’t cry like en embarrassing kid putting at risk an entire squad on the battle front.
Oooh is that too hard to read on a military forum ??
*I don’t mean that this is the scenario.
Hey, again…WHY do you take it sooo personally that someone, a person, a Nation whatever do NOT like the F35?………seriously…….
I am FAR from crying………and I am justified……EXACTLY what I have been saying for ages it seems has been seen in the last two days IN PRINT from Canadian papers that are covering a breaking Scandal ( AGAIN) about the F35…….
Just accept that Canada is NOT really a good “candidate” for the F35……I don;t care about “engineers”…….I care about a fiscally responsible Country ( Try it USA…Oh thats right NEVER happens)……what was it 3 TRILLION in debt? and most of it to CHINA……I don;t care if the SH was “designed in the 80’s”………….FUNNY how it IS the plane of choice for the US NAVY…THEY are VERY happy with it!……and DON’T seem to want the F35…….
and again……I highly doubt that Canada should be worried about a T50 ( only FIVE (5) exist) ( seeing as that is the PROTO TYPE of the PAK FA…) as I said……there isn;t going to be swarms of those coming to Canada is there?………maybe other planes…..but doubtfully T50’s……lol…..besides…they will save all their “stealthy” high tech stuff to go up against the US and it’s ” stealthy” Tech Stuff…just to see……
And I would DOUBT that 65 F35’s would do better to keep 20 year old Pilots alive…….because Fighter Pilots in the RCAF are to a man older than that…..mature, capable, confident and have experience and are Officers long before going to flight school, oh as well as being University Grads or Royal Military College grads first…AND recognized by Pilots from ALL NATO Nations as being amongst the best there is…even by US pilots, known to be well respected and skilled……..
and I am certainly not crying at all……..seems like YOU are the one that just can;t stand to see the F35 fail to impress, especially a whole Nation….wonder if the Aussies will stay the course?….and as for being an “embarrassing Kid”?………….ah NO…….I’m Military Vet…..22 years Fire Service, a family and manage to survive without the F35…….incredible eh?………do YOU have actual Military service or are you a keyboard hero with a Fighter plane fettish?…….TOMCAT ViP……must burn your ass to hear people run down that plane as well eh?…….
Jay LangleyDon’t be stupid: the 35 has become an irrational issue in the public debate thanks to some company that spend much more in PR than hard engineering. What else do you want to do ? Sense and avoid…
NO, the F35 is the FOCAL point of Political BS, lying, backstabbing and backdoor dealing BECAUSE the Public got the info in the first place…….it is NOT started by some other Company at all…….but from the deals that got caught out……the promised high end jobs with LM for Military Brass on retirement, the hiding and absolute fabrication of figures, the NOT following policy and proceedure……in Canada the Government is watched…….and they are held accountable….unlike the free reign in the States where Trillions are owed and tossed about annually……AT LEAST here in Canada…………
Jay LangleyThat could mean one of two things. Either (a) the RCAF will retire its fast jet fleet (in favour of a hotline to the USAF in Alaska), or (b) it will order the Super Hornet or Rafale. How about you take a gander at the cost of 65 aircraft of either type acquired off-the-shelf including engines, spares, support, training, maintenance.. the works. And your favoured aircraft’s likely loss-exchange ratio vis a vis the Su-35S and against the PAK FA.
Vnomad, again, Canada is NOT a Nation of war mongers…..we don;t tred the world looking to attack people…..WE, Canadians WILL and have every time we get called on…Bring it and in a big way ( Boer War, WW1, WW2, Korea, all the UN Missions…Afgahnistan etc)…..BUT for us to equip to fight the hordes of people that ARE NOT attacking Canada is stupid…….we need a “better for Canada” plane…….cheaper to buy, cheaper to operate, and we need to get MORE than 65 of them……so fictitious “loss rates” against proto type planes is redciulous……they won;t be attacking Canada……they will be attacking the USA…..( actually China won;t “attack” they already OWN IT)…as long as we can continue to operate and participate in NATO and meet or home Needs, we don;t need the F35 to do that………Canada will NOT be retiring our fast jets…..we have again recommitted to upgrading the CF188’s to continue on till 2025……but the F35 is NOT the only TOY in the store…….in all Honesty…….the F/A 18 E/F is far closer to what we need…………By the way………..F/A 18 E/F Super Hornets are priced at $55 Million each…….and a PROVEN IRON CLAD operating cost of $16,000.00 an hour………with the US Navy waiting final approval for what 24 E/W- 18 Gowlers…..the production runs will still be going………it may be a choice time to slip in to that run!……..Canada could get EXACTLY 127 F/A 18 Super Hornets for the same cost as 65 F35’s ( at 108 Million each…LOW BALLED)……hell Canada could get tandem seaters….even some Growler versions too….( I fully understand the Tandems and Growlers cost more)…..sounds like a spectacular idea………Thanks for the idea VNomad!……. a “hot line” to Alalaska does exactly SH%T for Canada…….the North and the east coast are far enough away to be out of luck from Alaska…….and funny how NORAD relies so much on Canada’s contributions as well……….( Maybe Canada would have NEVER been in this spot IF the USA hadn;t INSISTED that we squash the CF 105 ARROW project….( jelousy that we had THE best and most advanced plane at the time)….with that as a base Canada could have been a dominating force in Fighter design and production………but instead we bowed to the US and got their BS “Bomark Missiles” instead……..
By the way…….WHY would I look at the “cost of an either type”…..INCLUDING the engines ( already included in F/A 18 E/F)….spares..OK…..support ( Boeing Canada is here)…….Training?….really…alot less of that from CF188 to F/A 18 E/F…….Maintenance?….well seeing as they are far simpler, RCAF has crew that do that…..and can EASILY transfer knowledge with training…….and continue as is!……
Now lets add up those same costs for the F35……..OH thats right, NO ONE seems to be able to do that…….and when I tried to add it up, I was told to STOP trying to make it seem MORE expensive!……….
APPLES TO APPLES…
Jay Langleyhttp://aviationweek.com/defense/jsf-program-office-looks-canada-f-35-swap
This pretty well drives a stake through the heart of the old “export version” FUD people used to throw out.
I think this will pretty much drive a STAKE through the heart of Canada EVER getting the F35…………I think this latest scandal right before elections will be the death nell of the F35 going to the RCAF…….this Government will be HUNG if trys a backdoor illegal approach……it did before and got caught, and it just got caught again……the Government in Canada ( Conservative) cannot do ANYTHING without telling Parliment made up of Liberals, Conservative and NDP plus smaller groups….the others will band together and stop the F35 just because the Conservatives are lying and cheating again……even after they where ORDERED to have a competition and be transparent and under watch of the rest of Government…………just stupid…….
Not sure how you are seeing any of this as good for the F35………it really isn;t and it will NOT happen……..
Jay LangleyCan politicians get away with this sort of deceit (in particular deceiving parliament) in Canada?
Failure to dispute the validity or accuracy of the previously undisclosed deal laid out in the Pentagon classified documents = a decision has been made at least in principle on replacing the CF-18’s ie the man is not telling the truth. You don’t negotiate deliveries of goods with a single supplier out of several possible suppliers and reach the point of formally signalling your intention to buy if you have not made a decision to buy that product rather than others on offer.
This is really highlighting what I have been saying all along…….As a Canadian, and an Ex Military servioceman, I have watched this with horror since 2010……bottom line….IF the current Government under Mr. Harper…DOES go ahead with this back door approach AGAIN…….it will be the END of him and his Government…..in 2015 election….any NEW Government coming in will SCRAP the deal totally……
IF the Current Government does what it was ORDERED to do, perform a PROPER, Transparent Competition and does it all above board and right……MAYBE, the anouncement for it would be made in 2017…..
This is the SAME Government that has promised to build new Destroyers and Resupply Ships ( one of our TWO caught fire and was ( embaracingly) towed back by the US Navy…also promised new Ice Breakers……yet no design has been chosen yet!……and lets face it………IF the CF188’s are being upgraded to stay flying until 2025……WHY are they so rushed to get 4 F35’s illegally?…….
AS a Canadian and one pretty well informed on how Canada works……..I would harken to guess that this “release” of information and the Government being caught AGAIN lying and cheating and back dooring…..will END the F35 fiasco to Canada…….I doubt the go ahead can survive this AGAIN….
ALSO I would contend that that article is correct………I had an opportunity to speak with 5 CF 188 Pilots and some ground crew a while ago while I was at CFB Trenton…..the Pilots are NOT interested in the F35 at all………and certainly not “COVETING” to use ultra sophistactated, and troubled HMD’s despite what the article says……..reality is often SO FAR from what is written……..talk to the actual guys on the ground and they don;t agree with the hype…….to me it seems as if the usual disjoint between the actual Aircrews and the top brass is wider than ever…….the Top Brass are expecting big paying jobs with LM after they retire form the RCAF …there was big articles about it a few years ago……. and HUGE public outcry……
Jay LangleyThe price of the plane, heck, any plane, has always been for the initial hardware.
Why would you start shifting costs around now?
This is how costs have always been judged. Don’t start screwing with it just to try an make it more expensive to “buy”.
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I wasn;t trying to make anything “MORE” expensive………I simply used the data that was provided ….and from an article that outlined the “Contract costs”………I didn;t even take into consideration the Operational costs over the life of the plane……..
TOTAL OWNERSHIP COSTS..according to your own chart would be astronomical……..even acquisition costs sit exactly where I stated……..at about 123.8 Million…..
Thanks for that chart …..it really explains alot of things…….
Jay LangleyThat is the contracted price, including the engine and everything you would need to fly the plane. No, maintenance and upgrades are likely not included in that price.
Looks like Canada is planning to buy its first four jets in LRIP-9, so figure 4-5% cheaper.
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/u-s-says-canada-to-purchase-f-35-stealth-fighters-in-2017
PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE……..this “proposed” go ahead is only released from the briefing documents from the US Military, TOTALLY uncomfirmed BY CANADA
Interesting that an F35 head of program is releasing that kind of un substantiated information in a briefing?…..but to WHOM?….jumping the gun and using it for added ammo to US congress?…..THIS is going to come back and bite someone really hard……….either the Government in Canada for under the table BS deals again, OR to this US General F35 guy for spreading BS….one way or the other….keep watch to see!
I don;t know how that is possible…….there has NOT been the ORDERED competition, nor has there been anything released by the Government here……..if they do….it will be a SH%t storm of epic proportions….and come election the entire thing could be cancelled…..WHY do this idiotic Government we have here keep trying to jump the protocol and short cut everything…….it has NEVER worked, and they keep getting slammed on it……we shall see………
So Bottom line, each plane is 108 MILLION….PLUS the CONTRACT costs for Maintenance, support, upgrades etc…( which you can;t really get out of, or do without)…which was reported to cost 15.8 million EACH….so when added up the cost to fly away and operationally support each F35 is really $123.8 MILLION?……..does that sound right?……..
what a deal….
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