Hi Moggy

Will you please complete this piece upon your return and give us chapter and verse on your visit.

Hope the weather is better than we are getting in Cornwall right now 🙁

Allan

Hi Richard

In cases like this you will generally find that the villagers requested that his body remains where he died instead of being “concentrated” into a larger cemetery post-war.

The saddest ones to me are the tank crews where the gravestones are joined together as they cannot distinguish the individual person.

Allan

Heading off to The Beaches on Thursday

If you had to choose one Normandy CWGC site, which would you visit?

Moggy

hi Moggy

Found this one in 1991 whilst visiting the ALG locations of 125 Wing, one of the smallest in the area and right beside the road – the JERUSALEM WAR CEMETERY, CHOUAIN which contains the grave of a 16 year old DLI soldier

BANKS, JACK Private 14429036 21/07/1944 16 Durham Light Infantry United Kingdom Row B. 15. JERUSALEM WAR CEMETERY, CHOUAIN and a padre

HAWKSWORTH, The Rev. CECIL JAMES Chaplain 4th Class 90874 07/07/1944 35 Royal Army Chaplains’ Department United Kingdom Row B. 2. JERUSALEM WAR CEMETERY, CHOUAIN

Just how old was Jack Banks when he enlisted – he must have spent several months in training before being sent to Normandy – so probably only 15!

I was also searching (no CWGC website in those days) by a process of elimination the grave of the father of my local vicar (Bob Groves).

He had always presumed that his father was buried near to Cannes in the south of France until I heard of his date of death and realised that he meant near to Caen, Normandy so I promised to track him down whilst on my own quest – I eventually tracked him down in ST. MANVIEU WAR CEMETERY, CHEUX

GROVES, RONALD JOHN ROBERT Private 5673724 10/07/1944 24 Somerset Light Infantry United Kingdom X. G. 6. ST. MANVIEU WAR CEMETERY, CHEUX

Have a safe trip – regardless of where you end up – they are all worth a visit, and signing the visitors book as well.

As well as numerous other British and Canadian cemeteries I have also visited the US cemetery behind Omaha beach – and walked up from the sea to the cemetery trying to put myself into the same situation as 1944 (but without the incoming fire and heavy equipment) – and also to the German cemetery at La Cambe.

Allan

Marco Simoncelli and the Mail online

Neither can I Moggy – but this thread is headed “Marco Simoncelli and the Mail online”

Not much coverage normally of most motorsports unless their is a tragedy like Marco or Dan Wheldon, but plenty on-line and in the paper on football, rugby etc.

They are obviously looking for cheap headlines in both types of media.

My thoughts are with his family, friends and girlfriend. R.I.P. Marco, a sad loss to MotoGP.

Allan

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1267525757.png

can’t get picture to appear for some reason – 9.99 download – 0.74 upload – ping 44ms

From Truro in Cornwall – BT Option 3 – supposed to be 10 meg IIRC

Allan

Ernest Brockhurst

Hi

Do his logbooks give any date that he was shot down at all – as, presumably, he carried on flying after getting back to the UK to have “log books for near the end of the war”

If you can scan the records, on the best resolution possible, and send me a copy to allan(dot)hillman(at)btinternet(dot)com, replacing the obvious of course, I will see what I can do to interpret them for you.

Once we have a date I can ask on another forum if anybody has the 218 Squadron ORB and we can see what is written in it about him and his crew, if anything.

hope this helps

Allan

Ernest Dudley Brockhurst

Thanks for your reply. Do you know if it is possible to find out if he did his training in Canada?

Hi Treganna

If you have his logbooks it will be written inside the locations, and length, of the various courses that he did. If you don’t have his logbooks it will be a little bit more difficult as you will have to apply to the RAF for his service record.

This link http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/raf.html will tell you how to apply, then when it comes back you can come back directly to me (via a pm), or to the forum, for a breakdown of the acronyms into base locations.

I looked at 218 squadron losses in 1944 but couldn’t find one with your father’s name mentioned in the crew, but to be fair not all crew names are given with the losses – do you have the date at all – and the only Gillies I could find was on the Singapore memorial via the CWGC website?

cheers

Allan

Black Friday – 9 Feb 1945

Hi Moggy

I had considered editing the piece myself – however, like you, we have to tie down the actual losses and this is going to be very difficult if we cannot even establish the actual number of our aircraft taking part – even the Luftwaffe losses are suspect and the number of Kriegsmarine ships is also in question!!

^(I) The number of German ships accompanying Z33 in Førde Fjord at the time of the Allied attack differs between sources. Ashworth (1992), p. 122 gives a figure of one minesweeper and two flak ships, Alexander (2009), p. 181 refers to her having “minesweeper and flak-ship escorts”, Brereton (1994), p. 472 gives a figure of two M-class minesweepers, a sperrbrecher and “at least two other flak ships”, Conyers Nesbit (1995), p. 224 states that she was protected by two M-class minesweepers, a sperrbrecher and “several flak ships”, Goulter (1995), p. 254 gives a defensive strength of two M-class minesweepers and a sperrbrecher while Milson (2010), p. 51 writes that the destroyer was protected by “nine anti-aircraft escorts and armed tugs”.

^(II) The number of Allied aircraft involved in the attack also differs between sources. Conyers Nesbit (1995), p. 221, Milson (2010), p. 51 and Parry (2002), p. 47 state that the force comprised 32 Beaufighters and 10 Mustangs. Alexander (2009), p. 181 and Greenhous (1994), p. 472 give a figure of 32 Beaufighters and 12 Mustangs. Goulter (1995), p. 254 states that the force was made up of 31 Beaufighters and 12 Mustangs.

^(III) Goulter (1995), p. 254 and Milson (2010), p. 54 state that four Fw 190s were shot down while Conyers Nesbit (1995), p. 228 and Greenhous (1994), p. 473 state that five Fw 190s were downed. Greenhous wrote that his figure is sourced from German records.

This excellent article on http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/Forde.html states that one Mustang, out of twelve, had problems, and turned back with another as escort leaving 10 to go on.

However, basically, we are none the wiser with the casualties as it states “1 Mustang and 9 Beaufighters were shot down, no less than 6 of the Beaus from the hard-hit 404(RCAF) Sqduadron. This squadron lost 11 men killed on a this day, with another one taken prisoner. Altogether 14 young lifes were lost on the allied side, and at this stage of the war with the end clearly in sight, it must have seemed a heavy price to pay.”

It would seem that a trawl through the article might come up with the actual numbers killed and POW’s.

Allan