ianwoodward9AJ Jackson wrote that North Eastern Airways acquired three Envoys (G-ADAZ, G-ADBB and G-ADBZ) which were often used on the Croydon-Edinburgh route and, as longshot says, that G-ADBA was bought by Olley Air Service (its C. of A. being issued on 18 April 1935) and Olley sold it on to Cobham Air Routes Ltd. for use on its Bournemouth service.
G-INFO says that, on 2 February 1937, G-ADBA was registered to North Eastern Airways. The latter’s G-ADBB, according to Jackson, had gone to the Spanish Civil War in September 1936 but, on 22 January 1937, its G-ADBZ crashed , leaving North Eastern with a single Envoy. This, I would suggest, is the likely reason why North Eastern moved to purchase G-ADBA from Cobham so promptly.
Jackson says that G-ADBA next went to the Air Council in January 1939; G-INFO specifies 1 January 1939 but has also has a reference to 1938 in parentheses. I show an image below – can anyone read what it says? (It doesn’t look like “Cancelled” to me but that’s the closest I can get)
Peter Moss did not list G-ADBA as an impressment but says that, while seven Envoys were manufactured to an Air Ministry contract, an eighth (namely G-ADBA) was bought second-hand from North Eastern and became, as longshot said, P9778.
ianwoodward9The photos inside the BEA Engineering Base recalled an unusual visitor there. Checking an old pocket diary, I noted that a Tiger Moth (G-AMIU) was outside the hangar on 10 May 1962 and, outside again, the following day.
I don’t know when ‘MIU arrived but it had been bought, a couple of months earlier, by the BEA staff club gliding section and was presumably there for a check-up or an overhaul. Anyway, it left on 14 May 1962 but not from a runway. It took off from there, right in front of the BEA Engineering Base.
Does anyone know of a photograph of G-AMIU taken during its visit to LAP?
ianwoodward9That’s where I recall – in through the main doors of the Queen’s Building. Wasn’t there an escalator to go up and a turnstile inside at which to pay? Or is that fantasy on my part?
ianwoodward9The first time I went to LAP was, I think, in the summer of 1957 when I cycled to Bedfont Green, cut through to Stanwell Road, crossed the Gt South West Rd and stopped on the south west perimeter and looked across the airport where the green beacon was blinking away. I thought it odd that it continued to do so in broad daylight.
I can recall the shape of the aircraft taking off (I’m pretty certain it was a Dakota or, more likely, a BEA Pionair) from left to right, and I can recall thinking it must be a freighter, as it was nowhere near as sleek as the aircraft I saw landing on 28L from my bedroom window.
In 1958 and 1959, I mainly went to the viewing base in the Central Area, sometimes cycling through the narrow tunnel on the left-hand side, for pedestrians and cyclists, but usually by bus. Was it the 90b route? Whatever, it went through the airport from Hatton Cross (the outer ring of the large roundabout in the above photo is where the workers’ bus stop was situated) to Harlington Corner, where I would change on to a bus for the Central Area.
I was certainly using that mode of transport in April 1958, as I can recall standing at the bus stop on the Bath Road as the Aldermaston marchers went by, heading west.
Anyway, the aerial photograph below is from a 1959 booklet, so was probably taken in that 1958-59 period.
ianwoodward9The photos posted by duggy (Post # 327) are very evocative. Mum used to work in the Engineering Base and I visited a few times. I seem to recall being shown a seat-belt being installed and demonstrated. When were they introduced, I wonder?
On the aerial view of the Engineering Base, I’ve marked where I think the first two photos were taken.
On the D-ABOM crash, I was away for a few days in the middle of August but, on 30 August, my diary entry includes: ‘D-ABOM 707 (1st visit since crash)’ – oops, slight error on the a/c type, I think.
ianwoodward9This photo was published in FLIGHT in October 1963:
ianwoodward9I was allocated to the Heston branch, though I don’t recall attending any meetings. I went mostly to the London Society of Air Britain meetings. I have extracted my 1962 pocket diary from its hiding place, as you may have gathered, and I noticed this entry for 2 August 1962: “LAP / LCU Dove / RWI DC-6 / MDA Anson flying over / Westland Heliport RZT Brantly B2″.
Since the heliport was not somewhere I would have routinely visited, I wondered why I’d gone there – I have no memory of it. Then I saw some faint pencil marks at the top of the page; one of them read “LSAB”, so I presume I checked the heliport out on the trip into town. [Mark, I will PM you on a separate matter]
ianwoodward9Back to LAP, though early 1960s.
I witnessed this crash. My memory is that a group of us were on the south side, realised that the plane was in trouble and skedaddled round to the north side. I think the runway was foamed and, as the nose touched down, there was a pink flame – which I recall because it was not the colour I expected. Emergency vehicles were there promptly and, further back, coaches to take the passengers away.
My diary entry for 14 August 1962 simply reads: “F-BHSP 707 / D-ABOM 720 – crashed / PVX Dove / OY-KPD CV-440”.
I didn’t take this photo, by the way.
ianwoodward9I just found this on-line.
I have sent corrections in. The date was 24 June 1962 (I noted CL-44D N228SW at LAP that day) and HB-GAO was photographed at Gatwick the following month.
ianwoodward9Sadly, much less able to squeeze through narrow gaps these days. I used to have a photo of me on hangar exploration at Gatwick but I haven’t seen that for a long time – it may be around. I did find the photo of Commanche VR-SEJ; pencilled on the back, I had written “1/60 f8 Minolta Autocord”. I have a similar hangar photo (Twin Bonanza HB-GAO, 1/60 at f4 this time) and, under the fuselage, a pair of legs walking towards the aircraft. Probably just a brief visit then.
I cannot conjure up a face in my mind to put to the name “G.L.Fisk” but I think his forename was Graham. The other two in the team just referred to him as “Fisk”. I’m also pretty sure that he was a member of the West London Aviation Group. I must dig out those copies of the WLAG newsletter to see if he’s mentioned there.
ianwoodward9L > R: Dennis Fox, Brian Stainer, me and ‘Albert’ (V.E.Gibb), second highest scoring team in the 1963 Air Britain recognition contest. I was the lowest scoring of the three of us, which means that, had I been better, we might have been the highest scoring team. The photo was taken by ‘G.L.Fisk’.
ianwoodward9That makes sense. I seem to recall an aircraft drawing by Armstrong Whitworth in connection with the work of the Brabazon Committee
ianwoodward9As I mentioned earlier, the 1946 SBAC show took place over two days: Thursday 12 September was for the exhibition and the static display, which was at the south end of the airfield, and Friday 13 September was for the flying display.
There were, in fact, two flying displays on the 13th: the first was 11.00 – 12.45 and the second 14.30 to 17.30. The day started rainy but had cleared in time for the first display. 39 aircraft types were flown that day. Unfortunately, the layout of the airfield and the location of the spectators meant that the latter could not see landings and take-offs too well. Those familiar with Radlett may be able to picture this.
Also at Radlet, but on the Sunday (15 September) there was the RAeS annual garden party, from 14.30 to 1930. This included the flying display, too, but not as extensive as the ones on the Friday, apparently. The garden party was open only to RAeS members and their guests.
There was no show at Radlett on Saturday 14 September 1946 because this was Battle of Britain day, which involved open days at 60 RAF and RNAS stations across the country, not to mention a planned flypast of 300 aircraft, from 34 squadrons, over London. Included were three American squadrons (36 aircraft – Mustangs and Thunderbolts) over from Germany. They were all to have formed up over the south and south-east of England and flew in a straight line from Southend to West Hammersmith, crossing central London between 11.00 and 11.30. In the end, the weather was so bad that some squadrons, including naval squadrons, were unable to join the formation. I do not know how many aircraft actually took part. And the weather was so bad that the planned afternoon flypast (from Selsey along the coast to Exeter, then up to Bristol and back to Salisbury) had to be cancelled entirely. Had it taken place, the single-engined types would have broken away from the rest of the formation near Bournemouth
ianwoodward9I’m glad this thread has come back up again. I missed Ian Sayer’s list of those who gathered on the Great South West Road opposite Cain’s Lane, at the time it was posted. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, I spent many an hour on the grass beside the Gt South West Road, the A30. It was not much more than a mile from where I lived at that time. Having lived and worked, since then, in places from Scotland to the Midlands, I now live less than a mile off the A30 but further west.
Anyway, back to then. Barry Hawkes was known as ‘Ben’ (from the initials of his forenames – Barry Ernest Norman). He lived on Bedfont Lane (more towards the level crossing at Feltham than the Staines Road end). His Dad was the local agent for the Labour Party and I think I got 2/6d for running voters’ numbers from a voting station to the Labour Party office, where party members tried to work who had not yet voted and, based on the canvassing returns, directed cars to drive them to the voting station. BEN went on to become a lawyer.
The voting station was in a school on Tachbrook Road, almost opposite where Brian Stainer lived. I visited there quite a few times (my gran used to live in Shakespeare Avenue, only a couple of streets away). Brian had an Aerial Leader and, later, a bright red bubble car (an Isetta, I think).
I think Ken Ede used to live in Southville Road, just off Bedfont Lane. His dad was the groundsman at the Bedfont (Lane) Rec(reation) Ground, as I recall. I think we got a few free ‘goes’ at bowling there.
Alun Jones, whose father taught in a technical college on the other side of the airport (Southall?), lived on Hounslow Road, almost opposite Lansbury Avenue, very close to where I lived.
To get to the Gt. S W Road by bike, I would commonly come out on to Hounslow Road, turn down Lansbury Avenue, cross Harlington Road West and cycle down Burns Avenue, which became Tachbrook Road, turn right down Bedfont Lane, past Southville Road on the left, cross Staines Road at an angle, down Richmond Avenue to the footbridge over the Duke of Northumberland River, and then along the path between allotments and playing fields and come out on Hatton Road almost opposite Cains Lane.
In those days, you could still make out where Cains Lane used to go, across LAP towards Sipson and Harlington.
John Davison’s father was an architect and they lived on Uxbridge Road just before the school playing fields (on the left coming from the airport). This was adjacent to what I still recall as Hanworth Air Park. I have a very vague memory of a Pou de Ciel still being there but that’s probably a false memory.
I think Fred Munday lived in Ashford but that could very well be wrong.
I recall ‘Snoggs’ and, looking for something in my 1961 pocket diary, I came across a heavily scored out entry on 14 August. Intrigued, I carefully rubbed out the pencil scoring to reveal, in biro, the (immortal?) words, “SNOGGS WROTE THIS”. At the back of the diary, I also found this note that I’d made, “ASK SNOGGS. Lloyds 21/12/61 Yank helicopter cr. Was date 5/10/61”. I presume I intended to ask him to look up that issue of Lloyds List to check the date of a crash.
I was checking the 1961 diary to see if I’d mentioned a Commando in August 1961; sadly, i had not. I did find that, on one day, I went to Biggin Hill, Gatwick and back to LAP “with Ernie”. I’m not sure but I think he was an older chap who appeared occasionally on the Gt. S W Road and used to take his family with him on spotting outings and, from time to time, I would tag along. Does that ring any bells with anyone.
I think “Tommo” was the P.R.Thompson I’ve noted in another diary as living at Waldegrove Park in Twickenham – POPesgrove telephone exchange.
Another with a POPesgrove number was Paul Arnold (his initials were also P.R.) who lived on Whitton High Street; I don’t recall him visiting LAP much but he was certainly an aviation enthusiast, as I have an old postcard from him basically just listing the aircraft he’d spotted on holiday. Both were at H.G.S.
I have a few old copies of the West London Aviation Group newsletter (from around 1962-63); I’ll check these for other names.
I also have a photo of Brian Stainer, Vic Gibbs (Albert) and me at an Air-Britain meeting. It was printed in an A-B DIGEST and I’ll try to dig that out.
ianwoodward9This is from the Aviation Ancestry website – see also Schneiderman‘s post (#21) – a different tailplane but similar shape and similar powerplants. Were these drawings in connection with any particular official specification?
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