P40

All I said was that the MOD would be looking at the available information – P40E, 260Sqn, summer 1942 as a start. Period.

P40 identity needs to be confirmed first of all and once confirmed, the pilot name will then be known.

After that, I do not know what would happen.

Whether there is any markers on the ground will need to be checked though the site has been disturbed. The area does not seem to be of loose stone to facilitate making markers. Aircraft parts do not seem to have been set away on top of a rocky area as directional markers either.

Believe the LBG crew were found in a very flat hard landscape and were partially visible on the terrain where they eventually surcumbed.

It seems the area consists of layers of rock and layers of sand which is impossible to search even if you had the manpower to do so.

I would hope any salvage team would search the approximate area including under the port wing where the parachute was. If not there, then unfortunately I believe any missing pilot would I believe remains missing.

regards

Mark

P40

Bruce,

The P40 was on a rocky escarpment. No sand dunes anywhere and literally in the middle of nowhere as you would expect.

Have also been given the OK to confirm that the Royal Air Force Museum are actively pursuing this P40 (which is probably not surprising for most of us) with the intention to recover and conserve. This is being discussed and dealt with at the highest levels.

Paul, have also been told it left LG09 and probably in the morning to take two damaged P40’s to 53RFU and return with two replacements.

As for it being recovered, it was still there yesterday 🙂

regards

Mark

P40

Mark

Think you are right.

All to do with erosion of layers of paint.

The Dark Green camouflage survives as it was over painted with Middle Stone which has been eroded down. Areas of Dark Earth have been eroded down to bare metal.

So with the stenciling in black, this has eroded down to the white or as a shadow.

I know you would not paint white on white – just getting me head around it.

Ian – heard the same regarding the hatch. Looks like this is a Mod undertaken at the MU.

regards

Mark

P40

OK, an archaeology question of sorts. Would be interesting to know general thoughts on this as it has not really been discussed.

The writing on the hatch.

It seems to say

COWL BUTTON

TO BE LOCKED

SHUT BEFORE FLIGHT

Q – Was this applied in the factory – if so does not seems to be a clear stencil, more hand painted.

Q – Is it two separate phases ‘Cowl button to be locked’ and later ‘shut before flight’.

Q – The writing seems to have been painted ‘above/around’ the grey modified latch plate.

so, if not factory

Q – was it applied at the MU when assembled when the modified hatch latch was fitted?

Q – if this was the case and it was painted over the roundel would it have been painted over before issue to 260Sqn. Also a note in white paint over white roundel so does not make it readable!

Trouble is it seems to have survived the best which seems to indicate it was not applied last though was applied with thick paint by brush?

Bit a quandary. No evidence on other P40’s ever having this though not many show the modified hatch latch.

Bit of a head scratch!!!:confused::confused:

regards

Mark

P40

Buz

That mornings reconnaissance sounds like a good option.

The ‘no’ listings I mentioned was only in relation to the book.

So one Cat1 and to Cat2 damage to three P40’s on the morning of 28th June. The damage to the rear fuselage looks more like flak though again destroying the IFF has been discussed as an option though thought this was on a tray at the bottom of the rear fuselage?

ET574 obviously had some damage to either the control linkages/connections to be unable to retract.

Damage listings

Categories 1 and 2 are those classified as being repairable using Squadron Technical resources.
Category 3 repair requires station or Command resources. This level of damage is the lowest level of damage to be classified as a Major Accident and must be reported as such.
Category 4 usually requires the aircraft to be returned to a Maintenance Unit in the UK for repair.
Category 5 is considered a write off and the aircraft is beyond repair by RAF resources.

Non retractable undercarriage is a serious issue and means it is non operational. Could probably be sorted out at the squadron but not with the retreat and moving being undertaken so seems it was decided to send these two back to 53RSU for repair.

Why Copping went South is a whole other minefield.

regards

Mark

GENERAL NOTE
TO REITERATE – THE P40 HAS YET TO BE CONFIRMED AS BEING ET574 AND BELONGING TO F/SGT COPPING

P40

Nice pics of Hurricanes (included 73Sqn ‘arrow’) on lorries and trailers for 53 RSU in Egypt/Libya.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39411748@N06/6345103798/in/photostream/

This was one of the RSU units in the area.

regards

Mark

P40

Max

As they did not have a long life due to conditions and combat and belly landings/repair and recoding, I am sure there would be at least a couple of dozen P40’s with 260Sqn coded B during the North African Campaign.

As you said, does not know the VintageWings writer difference between the Kittyhawk IA and the Kittyhawk II nor the fact the roundels are clearly different and the difference to the fin/fuselage fillet etc.

Obviously have not been following the story on WIX or Key either. Just writing a paragraph of conjecture for the sake of it.

Mark