P40

The family are aware it is not 100% confirmed but all of the circumstantial evidence supports it. The identity is the top priority following by finding out the possible whereabouts/outcome of the pilot. (Additionally the pilot photo in Daily Mail in the doorway is not of Copping, it is of Sgt Walter ? – of 260Sqn, a friend of Copping).

So Butch Edwards has been interviewed in Canada. I am sure Ron Cundy will be interviewed in Australia. Whether the BBC will interview Suraman – Lord of the rings (Sir Christopher Lee) I don’t know. He is frail I believe and interestingly was the Intelligence Officer with 260Sqn at the same time.

Interestingly in Hanbury’s book, Sir Christopher Lee does a forward and he recalls S/Ldr ‘Pedro’ Hanbury telling him, “one mistake and you are out; now lets go and get pi33ed”. Cundy states he insisted on strict discipline both in the air and on the ground but was eminently fair. Edwards says we respected and liked him and most of all would follow him anyway.

Final footnote, ~Hanbury claimed a Bf109 on 6th July in P40 Kittyhawk ET575.

regards

Mark

P40

So the story goes into the Daily Mail even though the family saw it first in the Telegraph. Would like to think the slightly tactless follow up article might have had something to do with that.

The pic of Copping in the cockpit is in a British ordered Curtiss P40 Kittyhawk so not ET574 is that is the one in the Desert.

There are other photos but unfortunately no log book.

Least they re getting the plane right now, just the name wrong (Dennis not Denis).

regards

Mark

P40

David

I agree that it should be displayed somewhere, whether Egypt or UK.

It may be possible it has been seen at some time over the last 70 years but the fact it was missing nothing when discovered seems to discount it. To me, as she was found at the end of Feb 2012 is how she should be displayed.

Look what has happened when it was finally ‘discovered’.

regards

Mark

P40

Bruce,

Interesting ‘story’ from James Holland.

“It seems” does not really constitute evidence – diary, log book, letter?? Why say it if the family might read it and probably are! I would like to know more about this bust up with the CO? Additionally, would you need to make mention of it? Does it have any relevance and what good does it do now? Sounds more like embellishing a story for the British press.

Perhaps someone can provide us with that info and where it came from.

Obviously does not know everything as does not know the wingman’s name! Squadron records have one mission and records it as “bomber escort completed without incident”! The squadron moved four times in June and were not operational for sections of it. Yes, there were days when there was 6 sorties though there would have been a rotation of pilots (often there were more pilots than planes). The normal seems to be two sorties a day. The casualty rate is another matter and might be of more consequence but this is not have it is written.

There are a few things I find out about the ‘people’ and out of respect to them and the families, I don’t include it when it is more of a story about an aircraft.

regards

Mark

Additionally, agree with Dobbin. It should be restored to ‘as found’ state. Repair the perspex, replace the date plates and tags, weld repair the gouged metal. Display her as she was first found at the end of February 2012.

Beautfighter – you can be assured they have P40 erection manual, spoken to P40 experts who have worked on then and will know how to take one apart if and when the time comes. Its called forward planning!

P40

…..and right from the initial story where it was called a ‘Kittyhawk P40’ instead of P40 Kittyhawk, the mistake is copied by all it seems.

Will have to start talking about Spitfire Supermarines and Hurricane Hawkers.

That offer of a 2 minute check days before the news was released now gets more and more grinding!

Good news it is out though but still needs to be recovered.

Also Jakub was not the lone ranger, he was part of a team which has also been forgotten! (Sometimes I wish it was a single person that discovered it). News people seem to have forgotten that much to his annoyance.

regards

Mark

P40

Haha Andy,

Had ITN, BBC and BFBS text and phoning me all day.

BBC wanted me in the London Studio by 5pm! Informed them its a hobby and not a job and getting up and leaving on a Friday afternoon was not on.

Been putting your name forward and you like your face on TV but hear you are skipping the country!

Have a good time in France!

regards

Mark

PS – Believe ITN’s report includes speaking with Director of RAFM so I think the cover is broken!

P40

Heads up

Tonights ITN evening new by the sound of it.

regards

Mark

P40

Hi Ozjag,

I would also be interested in knowing more about this from Walshlee.

I can add…

1) Copping was flying this aircraft the night before and nearly put the landing gear through the wings on landing. Landing into the sun and late evening he may have had problems seeing the strip and nearly crashed this a/c. Hence the locked to u/c the next day.

2) Copping left the next day without Sheppard and headed south of the LG with his gear locked down as the AMEs had done so in order to fly the a/c. I recall Sheppard leaving 30 mins later and caught up to Copping. He flew along side him on both the starboard and port sides trying to contact via R/T and hand signals, the flew in front and dropped his gear. Copping didn’t follow Sheppard to the east and continued flying in a S/SW direction. Hence the aircraft being were it is, nearly due south of the LG.

The published events don’t and may never reveal what really happened and they may not even appear in his RAF records. Remember Hanbury was killed a while after this accident over the English Channel. Only his surviving family have access to these accounts (if they appear) and are held in the AHB.

I have not heard that the hard landing before – is this in the squadron records? Will check Saturday when I look at 260Sqn, Wing and 53RSU records.

Nothing is mentioned in the Hanbury log book about the Copping/Sheppard flight on 28th.

I am checking with author’s who have been in contact with the Hanbury family previously to see if there is any other records in relation to the above statement.

AHB are looking at there archive to see if they have anything from Hanbury as well as they were mentioned.

The son of Hanbury lives close so I will have to try and arrange to pop in and see him.

Walshlee, can you confirm this is from a letter, diary, publication etc?

regards

Mark