costa rica has no form of military whatsoever… very refreshing indeed

The Antonov did fly with the PAF until the shortage of spares made flying unfeasable. It can now be found at the PAF Museum in Karachi in Afghan AF markings.

The picture was first posted on Pakdef.info a while ago. However, I cant remember by whom so I cant give due credit for it.

Mohammed,

A well reasoned post, but dont you think the PAF would be better served in upgrading the F-16’s with Grifo’s and rejecting the US MLU, for that would allow them to be BVR capable?

That is the crux of the issue.

…..

By insisting on the F-16 the PAF seeks a high visibility acquisition which will draw opposition from the Indian lobby etc to block the same.

Dont you think that its high time the PAF said b_ollocks to the F-16’s and just moved on?

Nitin, MLU and Grifo offer completely different capabilites. Grifo is merely a radar upgrade, while MLU is a much more extensive upgrade of the entire aircraft. F-16.net has some good information on what goes into the MLU upgrade.

As for the second part, as we have just seen, Pakistan did order other platforms like the Orions, Cobras and Hueys using the funds made available to them. Im for the fact that PAF should upgrade the F-16 regardless if they get additional fighters or not.

The thing is, and Im sure everyone would agree, the MLU upgrade would bring the Block 15 F-16s to approx Block 50 level in terms of capability. No matter how you cut it, that would be a major plus for PAF. Who know, perhaps down the road, say another 5 years, PAF might get clearance for the AMRAAM or integrating another BVR onto the Falcon fleet. Besides, there are plenty of other BVR capable F-16s flying around the world with not complimenting AMRAAMs. So that in itself does not justify not upgrading the F-16s, esp at such a low cost.

Nitin, the reasoning for keeping and upgrading the F-16s make every bit of sense. Regardless of the fact that PAF gets BVR missiles for the Falcons, it is an important asset when it comes to air to surface attacks as well using Paveways and Mavericks (only aircraft in PAF which uses the agm-65s). So its anti-surface role is very much central to PAF’s strategy. Also, up close and personal, the F-16 is hardly a slouch and air defense will still remain its mission. And just as IAF used the Mirage 2000s in EW role, F-16s armed with ALQ-131 would certainly accompany fighters on SEAD missions.
Of course as mentioned, the upgrades would also offer better operational readiness, service life, newer components, and flight safety.

Is the potential lack of BVR capability the only reason some of you think its a “stupid” decision by the PAF to upgrade/acquire more F-16s???

A-Darter is still in development and thus I would not include it as a leading contender for JF-17. However, we will certainly see AIM-9P/Ls on the JF-17 along with the Magics and anyother short range AAM in Pakistan’s inventory currently. The bigger question is regarding the BVR missile, and I think Pakistan Air Force will end up with two different systems. Possibilities are South African collaborated effort to arm the Mirages and SD-10 for JF-17. If PAF decides to upgrade the existing F-16s to MLU standard, we might have to integrate the non-Chinese BVR missile but it is also highly possible that F-16s might carry on without any long range missiles for the rest of their service life. There is no indication of AMRAAM making into PAF and displaying it at IDEAS is no proof of such. Arms displayed on shows are directed towards all the attending countries as well, not just the hosts.

Hi BME330,

Do you have any CN-235s from Pakistan Airforce. They just got theirs a short while ago.