R6915This has been a very eventful restoration. Congratulations and much admiration for the dogged Canadian persistance at Vintage Wings over a very long period and for overcoming so many setbacks.
R6915re # 26. Thank you for the up date!
R6915About 16 years ago I recall that the excellent Aviation Museum in Malta had rescued a Hurricane from the Med. That has been on display for a number of years and has had a remarkable restoration. There was also ‘talk’ of raising a JU87 that was also close by on the sea bed. Further that Stuka was said to be an Italian Air Force example.
Until this topic emerged on the Forum I had forgotten about this Stuka….so, does anyone have an update to offer and did it happen to arrive at the museum?
R6915A puzzle that has never been resolved in this film is the actual identity of the Spitfire that held the K5054 serial for filming purposes back in 1941. Having paused the video you-tube version given in post Nr 3 several times K5054 does emerge once.
The other Spitfires used in air and ground to air ‘close ups’ seem to be impossible to read except possibly for one. At 2min 58 secs a nearly fully visible P ?374 (possibly) with squadron marks of KL*B comes close to being legible.
Jeffrey Quill’s log books are held in a private archive and I did ask the holder if there are any entries about the filming. The answer is yes, at Northolt , K5054 is the serial entered, and a filming date I believe in November 1941. Obviously that’s about two years and two months after the prototype was wrecked at Farnborough so the question remains!
Bearing in mind the Battle of Britain film where so many participating aircraft identities have been determined during the last few years has someone somewhere ever attempted to do the same work on First of the Few and did the real i/d on the film Spitfire used by Jeffrey Quill emerge?
R6915From around 1977 to 1985 I was able to visit the Doug Arnolds collection at Blackbushe and go into the hangars as part of my then business activities. Some of the photos on this story line depict familiar scenes. Blackbushe was a treasure trove in those years.
Initally there were ex German Furies inside the hangar. Where else would you see a Liberator fuselage leaning against a Lincoln fuselage other than in a scrap yard, for example? The racks held, I was told, sets of wings for fourteen different Spitfires of various Marks. The Mosquito was there along with a Lysander with a ‘bent’ rudder following a forced landing. And so many more types including a composite Hurricane it’s difficult to recall all the types at this distance. The former French B17 stood outside, and the ex Hanover Street film B25’s were lined up on the grass between the two runways. At the control tower end of the airfield there were usually two or three CASA 2111 and maybe a Fury parked as well. All of that was backed up with racks of spares.
Mr. A. then sold the airfield to British Car Auctions and took the collection up to Coventry, as I recall. aircraft ‘in store’ . Very little was heard of the collection by enthusiasts in the south of England and one wonders what is left of the original collection supposedly at Greenham Common to this day.
R6915Spitfire fatigue?
I suggest that it has existed for some years actually. I remember a DX crowd line some years ago with all the new video enthusiasts with their latest big camera on their shoulders wobbling around on the top of those wretched step ladders.
One bloke yelled across to his mate “did you get that new Spitfire?” the answer…”I didn’t bother, they all look the same to me”.
Not there for the aircraft but to persue a more challenging topic than filming little Johnny and Mary at home in the back garden sand pit again and again! But to balance that comment, they did pay their entrance fees and that did go towards supporting the exhibition flying that day and in many subsequent years with an ever increasing population of those and other aircraft that all Forumites find so very interesting .
It is a cautionary story I sometimes repeat because in my close experience it is probably just one of many reasons why single aircraft type societies, unless they are involved in the restoration of an airframe or similar, seem no longer to achieve much traction in gaining new members.
R6915Is Hurricane LF 363 (with the BBMF) the aircraft that holds the record for being on continuous charge with the the RAF longer than any other service aircraft?
R6915A long time ago ( mid 1950’s?) one of the old ITV companies broadcast a general affairs programme each week. I seem to remember that a former Fleet Air Arm pilot (Hopkinson ??) who had two prosthetic legs? Fronted an occasional short film from the Isle of Wight where a group of amateurs (a technical college student group??) contructed a Turbi. Am I correct or is that a fantasy? But if I’m correct in only some details is there a slim chance that some of these short films still exist in an archive?
At that time school friends and I used to haunt Fairoaks at weekends. Mr. Jones was often there sitting on the grass talking to Universal Flying Services CFI Wing Cdr Arthur who apprently had bee installed there since the year dot. We used to talk with anyone we could. Mike Hawthorn (remember that racing driver from Farnham?) had a Fairchild Argus, the Autombile Association had (to my mind anyway) their superbly liveried Dragon Rapide (and the pilot had to wear putees just like the motorcycle mobile repair squads!) . Turbi’s used to arrive at odd times along with Tiger Moth’s galore and many other forgotten types and famous pilots. The sun always used to shine as well – great times!
R6915Good grief, where ever did that Daily Echo ‘snap’ come from anyway they should be ashamed at publishing that in conjunction with the not very good web article on Wooston..
They have (or did, perhaps I should say) have a good photo archive. Ah well. Concerning the Harry G book the photo showing the internal devastation was taken the morning after the raid when he was let in to try and recover some essential items. I think Russell also borrowed it for use in one of his books. Harry did have others but none as dramatic as that one. In fact he said he took it on impulse as he stepped back in a hurry when the floor he was standing on started to give way under him.
Webbs photos credited as Vickers were in his archives and I daresay the duplicates are in the Cambridge University archives of their succesors (BAE Systems ?).
Russells books, the first one I believe is almost unobtainable now, but I think I knowof someone who may have a couple of mint copies of the Postscript book. Let me know if that helps.
R6915A real tragedy, I also hope that it is quickly restored to its previous perfection.
Looking back through the posts here, it reminds me that Jeffrey Quill was also, initially, in a quandary concerning what to describe the Spitfire Society’s new build ‘representation’ of their full size prototype Spitfire K5054 back in the late 1980’s when fund raising was getting under way.
JQ, I was told, always insisted that good English Grammar should always be used with precision and clarity. He determined that ‘facsimile’ was appropriate and that the society should always refer to it thus. If only I might follow his good examples!
R6915Going back to Post # 13 – and sorry for this late response – re bomb damage at Woolston from Sept 1940 there are good photos and narratives available
My pick are these four although I didn’t know Russell I knew Harry Griffiths quite well and spent many hours with him. Webb was an avid correspondent and I have some letters from him and he also gave me an unpublished chapter intended for his book describing his time at Vickers, Brooklands in the years leading up to his retirement. It is a collection of his observations from listening to many friends in management there as well works staff and what they thought of the TSR2 cancellation!
SPITFIRE ODYSSEY, C.R. RUSSELL ISBN 0-946184-18-6 published 1988
SPITFIRE POSTCRIPT, C.R RUSSELL ISBN 0-952-485-0 published 1994
TESTING TIMES. ‘GRIFF’ (Harry Griffiths) ISBN 1-852-047-7 published 1992
NEVER A DULL MOMENT DENIS Le P WEBB, ISBN 1 900-511-73-8 published 2001
C.R. RUSSELL was a ‘wheeler’ in Woolston Works in the ‘Spitfire Years’ , he lived in the immediate area. His second book includes more information that came to him following publication of his 1988 book. A number of ex ‘Supermariners’, including Harry Griffiths who took several of the unattributed photographs, all agreed that the books summed up the feelings, attitudes and memories of all staff levels of that time sometimes in contradiction with ‘official records’.
HARRY GRIFFITHS was a ‘works’ apprentice from 1928 but unusually he was attached to Arthur Black, Supermarine’s metallurgist. Harry was also an amateur photographer whose skills were used by C. Douglas Burr the Supermarine Staff photographer when he was overloaded! Obviously Harry was there during the bombing times and then at Hursley Park. His memories are crystal clear, and the photos are fascinating. By the way, The Lab was directly under Mitchell’s office and the Chief’s not infrequent interruptions to find out was going on (foul chemical stinks!) under his feet were often recounted to us.
DENIS Le P WEBB, there are inaccuracies in his book primarily in the figures and graphs (Denis was very deaf and ill aged 94 when intensive proof checking should have taken place – he did look, signed it off, thus commissioning the publisher but…) He had joined Supermarine in 1926 and was a Management Apprentice. He wrote this memoir when he was fully fit and added in the (inaccurate) figures and graphs much later, the publisher later told me.
By 1940 he was in a significant Supermarine management position and remained so throughout the war years. He describes in great detail the Supermarine company developments from its early days through to its break up. His 1939 to 1945 period is graphic and detailed with supporting photographs. When published in 2001 the few then remaining ex Supermariners also confirmed to me that, with the cautions mentioned, the memoir is exceptional in its depth and accuracy.
The four books mentioned should provide plenty of images to consider with a remarkable set of insights into the company. More images will be stored at Solent SKY Museum and you could try the Southampton Daily Echo newspaper image archives, not forgetting the Southampton Museum service. The Hampshire Records Office in Winchester should have further images and possibly digitized amateur ciné footage also available.
R6915As a celebration, today, and a tiny segment of the rich Supermarine history this cannot be improved upon in such a small space. Bravo!
R6915Stretching both the geography and credulity more than rather more than some of the earlier posts on this topic……! When the Spitfire Society had an office near the docks in Southampton for about five or six years from 1996 there was a procession of passers-by who would knock on the outside door and ask if there was any truth in the ‘local rumour’ that a couple of Spitfires were ‘dumped’ in the Solent and were to be retrieved?
The story ran along the lines that the Spitfires were scuttled by Air Service Training at Hamble airfield at the end of WW2 as being too ancient / battered to be worth doing any work on them.
I seem to recall the society Founder David Green who lived at Hamble at that time, did find a justifiable link somewhere for the story although the society then did not have any cash to fund and pursue the story any further. The society used to be inundated with stories of local Supermarine folklore. The best one I can recall was someone said to be living at Calshot and was said to have a full set Supermarine S5 / S6 series drawings!
That never came to fruition either! But who knows……just maybe there’s something there!
R6915What a delight to see MT818 on the hard standing and ready to go. It reminds me immediatly of one of it’s Supermarine regular pilots who told me that he always had immense fun when ever he flew it. That was of course the late and still much missed Les Colquhoun.
R6915Steve, Didn’t you tell us some time ago that it was a Sunderland?
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