Looking at Mark 12’s photo from Sept 1961 in post Nr 54. reminds me of my visit with a friend who had a commission from AeroModeller to produce 1/72 scale drawings of a Mk lX Spitfire for the magazine. (I’m sorry I can’t recall the serial Nr at this distance!) We spent an afternoon there in November 1961 (with an RAF escort) measuring and noting minor visual Spitfire details.
We were both reacquainted ( having enjoyed a scramble around them on Horse Guards Parade in the BofB display September 1955) with all the ex Luftwaffe aircraft including DG 200 – the Bf109. The RAF serial was slightly and clearly raised through the British applied dark grey paint on both sides of the rear fuselage.

But, there were two additions to the 1955 display collection. The FIAT Cr42 and the two seat Fw190! The Wellington (T10) was NOT at Biggin at that time. We learned separately and later that it was a part of the Fraser- Nash Collection and had been stored at London Airport since, I dimly recall, 1953 or 1954. That was after it joined the Collection following refurbishment to flying status at Vickers Armstrong’s airfield at Wisley. That was confirmed by my father who worked there at that time and flew in it for one or two of the test flights. Possibly it was the last T10 to be refurbished at Wisley.

I am confident it was not in the Biggin hangar as the friend I went in with was a Vickers, Brooklands apprentice at that time. We would have noticed it! The complete Fraser Nash Collection of aircraft, minus the Wellington, was on display at Wisley in September 1956 for the Royal Aeronautical Society Garden Party held at the airfield the lak of the Wellington was noted in the programme!

We’ve had the Canadian Lancaster and now we have the Blenheim’s first move under Bristol power.

What a fantastic year this is being. Aside from the Blenheim’s first flight, what do fellow Forumites think 2015 will have, to hold us equally enthralled?

WH does indeed make a good series of points, as do others here. From a very personal perspective in the mid 1950’s as fourteen year old’s a good school friend and I making scale control line model aircraft went to the IWM regularly in school holidays for accurate information about our next projects. The Library was always available to all visitors, we had considerable help from an encouraging staff. No trouble was too much for them and we were able to learn much, easily and quickly.

For my friend who had a natural artistic talent it enabled him to gain a specialised apprenticeship a few years later with Vickers Armstrong’s Weybridge and became one of their technical illustrators and later on with other aviation companies. His career lasted for his working life.

I did move in another direction but my close interest continues to this day and largely thanks to the staff at the IWM Library in Lambeth. If they let this national resource go because of the ‘cuts’ the next cost cut will be deeper and easier to perform.

Signing the petition is essential for all readers of this Forum.

Mr Beermat, Sir, your post No 29 is very intersting! I think that you may have solved the question. Lookig on my monitor screen (that probably isn’t very accurate!) that looks to be a very close match to my eyes. That you have also played about with the words and come up with a practical suggestion I feel adds weight to this being the closest colour shade comparison that anyone can make in present times.

Looking at other recent posts I know nothing about chemistry and paint make up but one friend did phone me ask if the type of ‘body filler’ that may have been used by the paint contractors back in 1936 could have reacted with the paint to produce the paint ‘pickling effect’ that subsequently caused the ‘crazing of the surfaces to occur?

Post 28 from Skyshooter and the reference to a Harry Robinson drawing in Scale Models magazine of March 1977 is it correct to assume it is the same drawing used by Dr. Price in his 1982 book “The Spitfire Story” ?

The comments in posts 21 & 22 make valid points. Perhaps then I may just add some additional splinters of background info. Gordon Mitchell and Jeffrey Quill were closely involved ( JKQ with other former colleagues from Supermarine) in ensuring that the facsimile was as accurate as it was possible to be in all visual details from the build beginning to the unveiling at RAF Hendon Museum. They visited Andover a number of times and it was actually JKQ’s original idea that a facsimile should be built for future generations to study if they so wished. They also helped raise much of the £40K needed for the build incorporating a very few early Mark parts where appropriate.

In the event that the question is raised could the facsimile ever be flown? NO! Fuselage frames are made from ply-wood and the wing attachment is such that it can be dismantled from the fuselage quickly (fuselage remains on the undercarriage as well) and easily with just one small screw in each wing – as examples!

I confirm that the desk model was painted with the surplus paint, Gordon told me so and added that his father had mentioned that to him before he died. The model was auctioned by the family with other artefacts from Gordon’s estate only three or so years ago.

Lastly, Alfred Price’s book on page 26 has a fine detail drawing of the original K5054. Including the wing ‘plating’ details and the original rudder horn balance shape. This book also mentions the wing flexing and the crazed surfaces that continually appeared and needed remedying by works staff. That’s why I posed the question – if in the works visit in Sept / Oct 1937 the wings MIGHT have been changed to a preproduction Mark l design set? I have never seen any mention on this (minor?) topic and does anyone know if this happened? Or was it left to the first production Mark l first flown in May 1938 to establish that the new wing structure design was satisfactory?

The Spitfire prototype K5054 from 1936 often provokes questions about its true colour. So far as I know, when I did look around and ask questions (some years ago) when there were still some ex Supermariners working in the Woolston factory in 1936 the matter was of little account, to them! I think I was told, by Harry Griffiths who worked for the company metallurgist manager Arthur Black, that the factory preferred Titanine products rather than Cellon. Arthur Black although originally ‘only’ a metallurgist ran the small laboratory directly under Mitchell’s office and were also frequently called upon to test many other types of product samples for their suitability.

Cerulean Blue it is not! Take a look at Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantone
A Cerulean Pantone 15 – 4020 colour sample is shown on that page. I think we can agree it is not the same shade of blue! But what is on K5054? One colour chart on the WWW net shows a No1 Sky Blue looking to my eyes closely similar – but that’s on a 2004 dated chart. So were Titanine Ltd offering a Sky Blue in 1936? I haven’t a shade card but a Forum thread from 2012 holds a discussion on this general subject, would one of their correspondents be able to help?

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?121214-1934-Titanine-colours

As to the facsimile on display and lovingly cared for by the volunteers at Tangmere Museum. I contacted Bill Williams yesterday (Sept 29th) Bill part built K5054 at his Andover home and managed and supervised all of the major construction of the facsimile at Aerofabs at Andover for the Spitfire Society. He respond last evening as follows.

“RJ (Mitchell) was given a small desk top model, I have a photo of Gordon Mitchell (RJ’s late son) holding it in front of the finished K5054 in 1993. When the fuselage was completed, early 1992 I spoke to Jeffrey (Quill) about colours and whether he wanted it in primer and polished aluminium or coloured. This actually came about through a discussion at committee about what period we were building K5054 for (first flight or later). Our concern being that ‘rivet counters’ would be telling us our mistakes. The best photos were of the high speed flight tests (May 1936) held shortly after she was painted.
Gordon brought the model to Andover, we met with Jeffrey to verify the colour and all agreed to use that as a match. The paint sprayer, Colin Pascoe, came over from the Isle of Wight (This chap painted various stuff for TV, police cars for The Bill, fire engines for London’s Burning etc) and he matched the colour as Nigerian Toyota Green.
He used this to spray the fuselage (Frame 5 to rudder) which was then stored at Middle Wallop pending raising more funds. Late 1992, with more money, we started on the wings and when complete (Jan 1993) we asked Colin to complete the spray job. The trouble was that he went to a different paint supplier, asked for the same colour mix and when he started I said ‘It’s not the same Colin’. We had slight debates over who was right or wrong, fell out a bit but when he looked at a photo of the aircraft it was obvious he had made a mistake.
Same colour but the two paint suppliers read the mix differently so Colin did what he could to fade the colours. It was a rush job as Jeffreys health was starting to decline and we were desperate to have him unveil it. The plan was to re-spray it completely after the Hendon unveiling but then Colin contracted cancer and we never saw him again! “

All of the former Supermariners that I knew 10 or 15 years ago agreed that the colour match was very good as far as they could recall. As far I know the paint specification has never emerged from old company documents and those working in the factory at that time thought nothing of it either! Maybe there’s still a story waiting to be uncovered there?
The high gloss finish blue shade on K5054 contrasts somewhat with Mark 12’s post No.11 showing RM 689 so I am unconvinced that a reference by other ‘posters’ to it being the same blue as Rolls-Royce company house colours of that time is valid. By the way, remember that RJ was presented with a Rolls-Royce car by that company in recognition of his Schneider Trophy success and that car was painted a yellow not “Sky Blue” suggesting that maybe R-R’s house colours at that time were NOT blue but might have been yellow!
The model K5054 for RJ’s desk, Gordon died just a few years ago and the model was included in the auction of his documents and artefacts. It fetched a very high price – as Mark 12 might be able to tell us! But Gordon also said that the model used surplus paint from the prototype Spitfire.
Lastly why do I write ‘facsimile’ and not replica? Because Jeffrey Quill enjoyed the use of good English grammar and whilst he conceded that replica might ‘do’ he felt that the word facsimile in his mind was marginally the more accurate term. And JFQ, with his good friend Alex Henshaw plus Jack Davies, Gerry Gingell, and a couple of other close associates were the original inspiration for building the facsimile before joining forces with David Green to help create the Spitfire Society and raise the funds through the new society for funding the build costs of around £40,000.
Apologies for the lengthy answer.

Gentlemen, you are stars! And thank you very much!