shamrockThe Senegalise have reportedly found wreckage that may be from the plane, but nothing has been confirmed..
shamrockCrew details have been published on the Air France website, no names released, just experience & time with the airline. It is in French but easy enough to get the gist of the information…
Paris, 01 juin 2009 – 23h28 heure locale
Communiqué N° 7
Personnel navigant techniqueCommandant de bord :
* Nationalité française
* 58 ans
* Entré à la compagnie en 1988
* Qualifié sur Airbus A330/A340 en février 2007
* 11 000 heures de vol dont 1 700 sur Airbus A330/A3402 officiers pilotes de ligne (copilotes) :
* Nationalité française
* 37 ans et 32 ans
* Entrés à la compagnie en 1999 et 2004
* Qualifiés sur Airbus A330/A340 en avril 2002 et en juin 2008
* 6 600 heures de vol dont 2 600 sur Airbus A330/A340
* 3 000 heures de vol dont 800 sur Airbus A330/A340Personnel navigant commercial
Chef de cabine principal :
* Nationalité française
* 49 ans
* Entré à la compagnie en 19852 chefs de cabine :
* Nationalité française
* 54 et 46 ans
* Entrés à la compagnie en 1981 et en 19896 hôtesses et stewards
* 5 de nationalité française et 1 de nationalité brésilienne
* Entre 24 et 44 ans
* Entrés à la compagnie entre 1996 et 2007Numéros de téléphone réservés aux familles et aux proches
0800 800 812 depuis la France,
0800 881 20 20 depuis le Brésil,
et + 33 1 57 02 10 55 depuis les autres pays.
NB : Nous demandons aux journalistes de ne pas appeler ces numéros réservés aux familles et aux proches.
shamrockI would not be surprised if the Akademik Keldysh and her two Mir submersibles were not called in to assist in the recovery of the CVR/FDR, both subs can go to extreme depths and have ROV’s too. They also have a great deal of experience in underwater excavation, which would be very useful in this case.
The fact that nothing has been found and it’s over 24 hours since last contact pretty much rules out the plane going down anywhere in the proximity of coastal regions on the flightplan.
In the past when planes have gone down in the sea, there has been landfall fairly close nearby for relatives to go to and have a memorial built, somewhere for them to just sit and contemplate or think of those lost at Christmas & birthdays…with this being in the middle of the Atlantic somewhere, this is what makes this accident all the harder for the relatives, and to think that a storm could have brought down what is a state of the art airliner just beggars belief…uncomprehensible 🙁
shamrockAt 2am this morning BST a report had been made on Sky news TV that a TAM crew spotted ‘lights in the water’ on or around the area where the Air France jet would have been.
I don’t understand why this crew did not say something about this sighting (if true) at the time, as it would have aided the search parties, ie co-ordinates etc. Why wait 24 hours before speaking up about it?
As for the plane itself, it was in the hangar having routine maintenance in mid April, maybe the maintenance records will throw something up that could point in a possible direction, who knows?
Still no reports of wreckage sightings or slicks as yet…and I agree about the woman from Whitby who believes her husband was on the flight, I personally feel that it serves no purpose to hear her complain about the lack of information or the problems Air France are having with their emergency contact number. At times like this even the world best technology can break down…we could all spare a thought to those on the phones at Air France who are dealing with relatives who need to know about their loved ones, the job of telling someone that their relative was on the plane and that they are missing presumed dead has to be as harrowing for the staff to tell as it is for the family to hear.
shamrockUnsubstantiated but still coming back to the same thing, a report in the Daily Mail has quoted a source from Air France in Paris…
The flight had been due to arrive at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris at 11.15am today – some 11 hours later – but air traffic controllers had their last contact with the aircraft about four hours into the flight.
The pilot came on the radio saying he had hit severe turbulence. Fifteen minutes later the aircraft’s systems sent automatic error messages reporting multiple electrical faults and a drastic loss of cabin pressure.
Such factors suggested that the plane had broken up in the storm, said an Air France source in Paris.
The source confirmed that there was ‘no hope’ of finding anybody in the wreckage.
The Brazilian Air Force is carrying out a search for the missing aircraft.
Trying to understand how a plane the size of a 330 would ‘break up’ in a storm is unfathomable…is that even possible?
President Sarkozy has been speaking to the families at the airport, a short press speech was made and can be heard via the BBC…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8078090.stm
The human side to this tragedy is just so devastating…
This evening, at Charles de Gaulle, French president Nicolas Sarkozy met some of families of those aboard the plane, including ‘a mother who lost her son, a fiance who lost her future husband’.
‘I told them the truth,’ he said. ‘The prospects of finding survivors are very small.’
When a plane goes down on dry land, there is always somewhere for families to go and share their grief and to be close to their loved ones at the point where they died. But when a plane crashes at sea, they have nothing left apart from fragments of personal possessions, if they are fortunate enough to find them. This is more a human tragedy than anything else…Air France & Airbus as companies will move and possibly learn from it but the people affected by it will be forever scarred by it.
shamrockWhen the news first broke this morning that a plane was missing, there was a worldwide sharp intake of breath. As the day has worn on, speculation as to why this tragedy has happened have been tossed back and forth. The why’s, wherefore’s and could be’s, should be’s will no doubt be in the forefront of the investigators minds over the coming days, weeks and months as they sift through what evidence they have.
But until those nationalities were released it was all too easy to set aside that all around the world tonight there are families whose loved ones will not be going home. Those families will be mourning their losses long after the ink has dried on the accident report, those families will be forever asking ‘why them?’.
Thoughts & prayers go to each and every family, friend and colleague of those who will not be going home tonight or ever again.
shamrockNationalities in English incase anyone is unsure of their French..
This list was made up on the basis of the furnished informations by the Brazilian authorities. * 1 South African * 26 Germans * 2 Americans * 1 Argentinian * 1 Austrian * 1 Belgian * 58 Brazilian * 5 British * 1 Canadian * 9 Chinese * 1 Croat * 1 Dane * 2 Spaniards * 1 Estonian * 61 French * 1 Gambian * 4 Hungarians * 3 Irishmen * 1 Icelander * 9 Italians * 5 Lebanese * 2 Morrocans * 1 Dutch * 3 Norwegians * 1 Filipino * 2 Poles * 1 Romanian * 1 Russian * 3 Slovak * 1 Swede * 6 Swiss * 1 Turk
shamrockThe full list of nationalities on board the aircraft has now been released by Air France via their French website..
Communiqué N° 5
Air France est en mesure de confirmer les nationalités des passagers qui se trouvaient à bord du vol AF 447 du 31 mai 2009, disparu entre Rio de Janeiro et Paris-Charles de Gaulle. Cette liste a été constituée sur la base des informations fournies par les autorités brésiliennes.
* 1 Africain du Sud
* 26 Allemands
* 2 Américains
* 1 Argentin
* 1 Autrichien
* 1 Belge
* 58 Brésiliens
* 5 Britanniques
* 1 Canadien
* 9 Chinois
* 1 Croate
* 1 Danois
* 2 Espagnols
* 1 Estonien
* 61 Français
* 1 Gambien
* 4 Hongrois
* 3 Irlandais
* 1 Islandais
* 9 Italiens
* 5 Libanais
* 2 Marocains
* 1 Néerlandais
* 3 Norvégiens
* 1 Philippin
* 2 Polonais
* 1 Roumain
* 1 Russe
* 3 Slovaques
* 1 Suédois
* 6 Suisses
* 1 TurcAir France adresse ses sincères condoléances aux familles et aux proches des passagers et membres d’équipage.
Air France met tout en œuvre pour soutenir les familles et les proches : une assistance médicale et psychologique a été mise en place aux aéroports de Paris-Charles de Gaulle 2 et de Rio de Janeiro.
La compagnie a également mis en place un numéro d’appel spécial à l’attention des familles des passagers. Elle les informe, à leur demande, de l’éventuelle présence à bord d’un proche.
Numéros de téléphone réservés aux familles et aux proches
0800 800 812 depuis la France,
0800 881 20 20 depuis le Brésil,
et + 33 1 57 02 10 55 depuis les autres pays.
Air France communiquera d’autres informations dès que celles-ci seront disponibles.
NB : Nous demandons aux journalistes de ne pas appeler ces numéros réservés aux familles et aux proches.
shamrockA few of those on board have been named….
The Michelin tyre company said three of its executives were on the flight, including the president of its South American operations, Luiz Roberto Anastacio.
It is also believed that Erich Heine, an executive board member at the German steelmaker ThyssenKrupp, was on board.
He is also the chairman of the company’s Brazilian unit – Companhia Siderurgica do Atlantico – a joint venture between ThyssenKrupp and a Brazilian mining company.
shamrockThe latest statement from Air France
Paris, 01 June 2009 – 16:44 local time
Press release N° 4Air France expresses its deepest sympathy to the relatives and friends of the passengers and crew who were on board AF flight 447 on 31 May 2009, which disappeared somewhere between Rio de Janeiro and Paris-Charles de Gaulle.
Air France is doing its utmost to provide support to relatives and friends: counselling with physicians and psychologists as well as specially trained Air France volunteers has been set up at the airports of Paris-Charles de Gaulle 2 and Rio de Janeiro.
Air France has also established a special toll-free number for the attention of relatives and friends of passengers who may have been on board. They can use this number to obtain information on whether or not a member of their family or friends were on board.
Phone number reserved for relatives and friends
0800 800 812 in France,
0800 881 20 20 in Brazil,
and + 33 1 57 02 10 55 for calls from all other countries.
Air France will release further information as soon as it is available.
NB: We ask journalists not to call this number, which is reserved for relatives and close friends.
President Sarkozy has reportedly arrived at CDG airport to be with the families of those on board the plane. Initial reports yet to be confirmed relating to the nationalities on board are as follows..
Most of those aboard were Brazilians while the others included 40 French people and at least 20 Germans, the French government said.
Six Danes, five Italians, three Moroccans and two Libyans are also believed to have been aboard, while the UK fears that some of its citizens were also passengers.
More details regarding the timeline have emerged too…
last radio contact at 0133 GMT (2233 Brazilian time) when it was 565km (360m) off Brazil’s north-eastern coast, Brazil’s air force said.
The crew said they were planning to enter Senegalese airspace at 0220 GMT and that the plane was flying normally at an altitude of 10,670m (35,000ft) and a speed of 840km/h (520mph).
At 0220, when Brazilian air traffic controllers saw the plane had not made its required radio call saying it was crossing into Senegalese airspace, air traffic control in the Senegalese capital was contacted.
At 0530 GMT, Brazil’s air force launched a search-and-rescue mission, sending out a coast guard patrol plane and a specialised air force rescue aircraft.
shamrockIndeed Shamrock, I was just trying to point out the nature and scale of the task, we are just so used to having facts at our fingertips within moments these days that some of us tend to forget that the planet is still a large and often hostile place in which to start looking for needles in haystacks, esp when we aren’t even sure where the haystack may be. As I fly long hauls on A330s as a pax I’m as keen as anyone for the cause(s) to be established.
I face a short hop back to LGW from GCI tomorrow – water’s not so deep, or so cold en route, as the south Atlantic, and Cherbourg peninsula is only an hour or so away by boat at worst, but I still wouldn’t fancy my chances if I had to take an unexpected swim. And no I’m not being flippant – I’ll get on board the flight without worrying about it too much, but it makes you realise that even short hauls over water carry a (very small) finite risk that I conventiently ignore every week.
hmmm…too true..there by the grace of god….:o
I guess we all just fly without giving it a second thought that it might happen…the ‘what if’ syndrome. Although if we all did that, no-one would fly at all. It doesn’t matter how many times the pundits tell us how safe it is to fly, its days like this that make you sit back, take a deep breath and think…just so utterly devastating for all the families and friends affected 🙁
shamrockA Brazilian online newspaper has this article, which one paragraph does lend itself to something going wrong with the pressurisation…
Shortly afterwards, to 23h20m, he was waited new return of the airplane of the Air France, but it was not made. The pilot only sent message through an internal system of the company informing that he was with problems of loss of pressurization and fails in the electrical system. The pilot sent message only through an internal system of the company informing that he was with problems of loss of pressurization and fails electric in the system.
Paragraph taken from…(and translated from Portugese)
Da redação – A Força Aérea Brasileira (FAB) acaba de divulgar o nota sobre Desaparecimento do avião A330, em que estavam a bordo 228 pessoas, sendo 216 passageiros, com sete crianças e um bebê. Segundo a FAB, às 22h33m de domingo a aeronave entrou em contato com a torre de controle e estava a 565km de Natal, capital do Rio Grande do Norte, a 11km de altitude ea 400km por hora. Segundo a FAB, às 22h33m de domingo a aeronave entrou em contato com a torre de controle e estava a 565km from Natal, capital do Rio Grande do Norte, a 11km altitude of 400 km por hora ea. O voo transcorria normalmente. O voo transcorria normalmente.
Pouco depois, às 23h20m, era aguardado novo retorno do avião da Air France, mas não foi feito. Pouco depois, às 23h20m, era aguardado novo retorno do avião da Air France, mas não foi feito. O piloto apenas enviou mensagem através de um sistema interno da companhia informando que estava com problemas de perda de pressurização e falha no sistema elétrico. O piloto enviou mensagem apenas através de um sistema interno da companhia informando que estava com problemas de perda de pressurização e falha elétrico no sistema.
Sem mais sinal, as buscas começaram às 2h com duas aeronaves, informou Antonio Carlos Moreti Bermudes, da Aeronáutica. Sem sinal but, as buscas começaram às 2h com duas aeronaves, Antonio Carlos Moretti informou Bermuda, da Aeronáutica. A Anac está atendendo os parentes dos passageiros em dois postos: no aeroporto do Galeão do Rio de Janeiro e também no hotel Windsor, na Barra da Tijuca. A Anac atendendo está os parentes dos dois em passageiros postos: Galeão no aeroporto do Rio de Janeiro e também no hotel Windsor, na Barra da Tijuca. Nos locais, as equipes são formadas por médicos e psicólogos Nos locais, as equipes são por médicos e formadas psicólogos
shamrockAs a one-off (to date) incident of this type on this type of aircraft, someone somewhere has to make a difficult decision, as the recovery costs will be massive if it really has come down in water that deep, esp if the area to be combed is large too. IIRC the trail from the Lockerbie 747 spread from Lockerbie right across the the East coast – try covering a trail of that length in mid ocean at two miles deep, especially after factoring in effects of ocean current(s) at varying depths, any wind effects on airborne debris etc etc….and in Lockerbie case they had radar returns from the larger pieces which helped them map the spread…. now try doing the same beyond radar coverage..
I’m not suggesting they won’t, nor that they shouldn’t, but just try getting your heads around the sheer scale of the task involved :(. Mind numbing!
They did the needle in the haystack ocean search for Air India 747 and although maybe not so deep as this Air France plane is likely to be, it is something that I get the feeling that Sarkozy will demand is done, money no object.
shamrockThe BBC have put together a timeline for the flight, the intial encounter with the storm being 0200 GMT and the automated message about the short circuit at 0214 GMT, 5 hours later the airline instigated the crisis center to be organised. It doesn’t take into consideration the time zone differences though, if that would make a difference tween AF receiving the message and starting the plane overdue ball rolling. Then again, the BBC do not have all the information at their disposal as to what went on behind the scenes when the message was received…something the CVR, FDR and the radar controllers should be able to fill in the various gaps (hopefully).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8077304.stm
The UKFO are looking into whether or not there were any British passengers on the plane.
One thing has crossed my mind in relation to the Brazilian controllers, wasn’t there a problem with this in the Gol 737/exec ject collision a couple of years ago when the controllers and the exec jet lost contact with each other for a time. I seem to remember there being a bit of a furore about the reliability of Brazil’s radar/ATC infrastructure at the time of that accident due to it being run solely by the military and very short staffed or something?
shamrockIf I’m reading charts correctly. The ocean around the area in question is up to 2 miles deep. It’s going to be hard to get a signal from the locator beacons on the boxes at that depth.
The depth of the water might cause a problem, but having said that, in 1987 when Helderberg went down, it was in very deep water that was said to be out of reach by almost everything available at that time. Twenty two years on, there would be better technology, I’m sure, that if the wreckage was found in deep water, there would be ways and means available to retrieve as much of it as possible, wouldn’t there?
I would hope that a cost factor would not be a stumbling block, they need to find out what happened to the plane one way or another.
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