ZOOMZOOM seems to have the word hard cash, economical situation as showstoppers. I disagree. PAF has been cashing up cause they could not buy expensive items for the last 2 decades. That explains that IFR, AWACS are bought. They would not buy these items if they cannot do with the fighterjets. It is handy that China financed JF17 and US provides assistance (for WOT efforts and not for free) but the block52 are paid. Repeating ZOOM’s logic looks childish to me.
Your post seems to have nothing to do with my contention by any stetch of imagination. As far as nearly obsolate fleet of PAF is concerned, purchase of IFR and Awacs has literally done no favour to its force structure, since purchase of potent platforms in the form of fighter jets was much more important task to replace nearly 2 and 2.5 generation fleet(other then F-16). Force consist of true 4th fighter jets like J-10 and F-16 Block 52 still represent a potent threat even without IFR and awacs. Economy has every say in building of airforce and purchase of certain luxurious assets like IFR and Awacs doesn’t make it justifiable either. Because IFR and Awacs isnt a toy which can be orderd and get it delivered by tommorrow itself which makes purchase of potent fighter jets make it immensly important to make up for security needs till their arrival. But in PAF’s case, we are ironically seeing reversal of the same according to yourself, as force multipliers are getting delivered first and then fighter jets like J-10 and Falcons following later.
This style of procurement only suggest that, PAF was suffering from lack of enough bucks all this years to build its airforce and in the end when it fully realizes that, it has no choice of procuring what they wish to be in their limited budget, they straight away gone for untested JF-17s and limited number of J-10s as only available means. I don’t want to bring F-16 Block 52’s as they are more of appreciation by US for Pak’s help in their war on terror.
About PAF and Chinese parts. Well, the Chinese seem to improve their products fast and by delivering the same (or almost the same) for fraction of the price one should be stupid not to buy the parts. But at the same time the could no deliver ejection seats a la Martin Baker so PAF went for non Chinese. I think PAF is doing the most effective and healthy job for giving all parties the option to provide and it does select what is the best for PAF. If China can deliver better or cost effective solutions then indeed J10B or JF17 parts will be Chinese. Nothing more then logic.
If this is really the case then why does we are still not seeing J-10 in PAF service? especially when PAF can fully embrace something like JF-17 which yet achieve its FOC let alone getting fully mature to become workhorse of PAF. As formula of purchasing fully tested J-10 first and modifying it later according to once needs, something which we have observe in JF-17 project become much more possible option for something as potent as J-10. But instead, we are seeing reversal of the same which only goes on to make one conclude that PAF wasn’t even position to garner enough bucks to purchase most available and economical Chinese option in the form of J-10 as far as purchase price and potency without western avionics is concerned.
ZOOMThere is only so much that China is willing to offer for export. In the case of J-10, it’s really hard to say, but I think J-10B is more likely to be the offer. But of course, PLAAF’s version and PAF version will be different since they have idfferent requirements.
Regarding avionics on future blocks of JF-17, I’m pretty sure they will be using Chinese ones. Of course, the Pakistanis like to boast about their Western options, but when the time really comes, China will show them something that fits PAF’s requirements.
Very Important point tphuang, since it all boils down to defence Budget assigned to PAF which gives them very little room for making their ambition bring to some logical end. China has nothing in its armoury that cannot fulfill some of the most basic operational needs of PAF even giving IAF a tough challenge as far as their upcoming aircrafts are concerned.
ZOOMIf it is delivered in 2014/15 then I would find it strange that they go for the older J10A. It is like LCA is ready and operational in let us say 8 squadrons and India moves on with a newer version (almost everything redesigned). Would you as an export customer still go for the first plane? Theoretical pssible but the reality would be different. There seems to be rumours of indeed j10B if you buy latest COMBAT AIRCRAFT mag. And PAF seems to go for latest versions when we look at F7PG. Even then they would go for customized version. In the case of J10 means that lot of avionics would be western. That is in line with what ACM have said. Just like that they were not fully satisfied with the older J10A.
I think it depends more upon Pak’s Economic Health to fulfill their new fighter jet acquisition dream. Regarding western avionics of J-10, I fail to understand what’s so wrong with Chinese avionics which can certainly fulfill their Operational requirements, since for western avionics, one need hard cash which is one of the biggest hurdle for the modernization process of PAF.
ZOOMI disagree with that. It is part of MRCA and I doubt SAAB delivered inferior planes sofar. Saab is one of the diamonds in aviotion world.
What makes you think that, just because it won’t able to meet IAF’s ASR conditions, so I should make it and call it as an Inferior?
I think the poster meant that why risking another development and not go for a ready option. Well, one of the reason is to develop national industry and less depending on foreign customer. If that means producing not the latet then so be it. So did every other nation. Look at Israel, China etc.
But how did you manage to make out what exactly that particuler poster meant?
ZOOMOh my good! I simply cannot believe and never expected that Harry’s prolong absence could someday translate into news of his death as a major reason for his absence from Keypublishing aviation forum. 😮
Although, I have registered on this very forum just a week back just to have some valuable interaction with someone like Harry. I have been reading many of his Post on this very forum from last four years and it is my complete misfortune of not able to interact with him when I registered on this forum a few days back.
One thing is equally clear, he was a true Indian Aviation enthusiast and always strive his best to bring in some of the most insightful knowledge and truth about Indian Aerospace achievements which is still oblivion to many common Indians and to the world at large. Nobody can feel the void created by his uninvited death especially his persistent hard work to reach to some of the most unreachable realm of Indian Aerospace world for the want of having updated knowledge and ongoing projects which exhibits India’s status into select club of nations known for Aerospace achievements.
My heartful tribute to Harry.
ZOOMPerhaps India should buy this paperplane
Thanks for the same, but unfortunetly ASR conditions of IAF is so tough that this paper plane can cope up with the same.
ZOOMDoes India possess required Industrial and Aerospace capability to contribute to massive ambitious project like PAK-FA? Because contribution of India cannot be limited to
ZOOMLet me move on. Here some pics of Pakistani air assets in the war on terrorism.
But where are the images in the link?:confused:
ZOOMDRDO braces up for a series of tests
Hemant Kumar Rout
First Published : 05 Jan 2010 04:14:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 05 Jan 2010 07:17:52 AM ISTBALASORE: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which is planning a series of missile tests in the next few months has a host of challenges before it to fit into the defence requirements of the country in the light of the heightening tension in and around India.
Sources said, at least five different ranges and variants of missiles are likely to be tested by the defence scientists and Indian Army in the first quarter of the year. The missiles to be tested from the integrated test range (ITR) off the Orissa coast are India’s longest range Agni-III, Agni-II, an interceptor, Shourya (the land version of submarine launched ballistic missile K-15) and BrahMos.
While 2000 km plus range Agni-II missile is scheduled for trial between January 6 and 9, the 3500 km range Agni-III will be test-fired by this month end.
The three other missile tests will be conducted one after another to gauge their accuracy and performances, said a source at the ITR in Chandipur-on-sea.
Defence analysts feel the scientists have to come out credibly to hold high the reputation of DRDO and to fit into the shoes of eminent defence scientists like APJ Abdul Kalam. ‘’Challenges are many and it is yet to see how it comes over the failures of the preceding years. Success and failures although tread along, keeping in view the defence requirements of the country, people have got a zero tolerance level as far as failures of the DRDO is concerned,’’ they remarked.
‘’While BrahMos and Shourya will be test fired from the ITR at Chandipur from a silo launcher, the Agni variants will be tested from the Wheelers Island off Dhamra coast in Bhadrak district.
During the advanced air defence (AAD) interceptor test, a Prithvi missile, modified to mimic a hostile ballistic missile with a 300 km -1,000 km range, will be fired from the Chandipur base and will be intercepted by another missile fired few seconds later from Wheeler Island,” said a defence scientist.
Defence sources said, the 2000 km plus range Agni-II missile, which was first tested in 1999 has a length of 21 meters, a diameter of 1.3 meters and weighs 19 tonnes. Having South China as the main target, the missile is designed to carry a one-tonne weapon. The Agni-III has a range of over 3,000 km and is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads. ‘’India is now developing Agni-V having a strike range of 5000 km which will probably fly in the air early next year,’’ said a source.
Apart from its long range missiles, the DRDO is now focusing on the ballistic missile defence (BMD) system. As part of the project it has already developed two interceptors – exo-atmospheric (outside the atmosphere) and endo-atmospheric (within the atmosphere).
‘’While the exo-atmospheric PAD has been tested twice, the second test of the endo-atmospheric AAD interceptor will be conducted this time,’’ the source informed.
Similarly, the newly developed 600-km range ‘Shourya’ ballistic missile, which can be fired from underground silos unlike the Prithvi and Agni missiles will be tested for the second time.
It is meant to boost the country’s second strike capabilities.
Significantly, Shourya missiles can remain camouflaged in underground silos from enemy surveillance or satellites till they are fired from the special storage-cum-launch canisters.
Two things I would like conclude from this
As far as upcoming Brahmos Test from underground silo is concerned alongwith Shorya, it seems to me that DRDO Scientiest are bracing up for submarine launch variant of Brahmos.
But can anyone read very last statement of above report. It says that Shorya will remain undetected in underground silo till it is launch, so may I presume that it can be detected once it is launched?:eek:
ZOOM3 posts. Seriously. It doesn’t work here. That is my opinion and I am happy to give it to you. 🙂
Not able to figure out what’s wrong you have seen with my post, since my reaction was highly sincere as far as immature comment I have quoted above
:diablo:
ZOOMReally good pics, but have you got this snap on some international airport or Military airbase?
ZOOMUntil 2012 the indian Airforce is OK. Looking at the J-10 right now, atleast it can meet the threats of next 20 years provided the absence of 5th generation fighters in south asia. And whatever india aquires, some 2 squdrons of J-10 are enough i guess to counter half of their airforce.
In my opinion, you first need to bring in some solution to counter Mig-21 Bisons of IAF, then thinking about dealing with half of the IAF.
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