It’s not just the medical profession though is it, look what’s been happening to the Military, the Police, the state of the teaching profession etc. Some cut back and turned into bureaucracies solely existing to meet performance metrics! The whole of the country’s infrastructure is falling apart I tell you.

Bet no one here would want to get on an airliner flown by a crew who had done the same amount of hours. I wonder what the statistics are for patients dying due to a spotty erk cocking it up because he/she was totally sh*gged. I don’t particularly fancy being confronted by a bleary eyed doctor if I’m in A&E with some life threatening condition that requires a clear head to sort out. We don’t ask any other safety critical workers to do those hours.

Maybe they did know what they were getting into when they signed and are keen, but even the keenest person can c*ck it up when over tired. That’s why they put tacho’s in HGVs.

Sadly seeing this in the engineering industry. Right, you all have to do more with less. It’s called being LEAN and it’s the path to riches for the shareholders. Well it is until the lack of resources means anything out of the ordinary causes the whole lot to fall over partly because all the good people have either left or are too sh*gged/disillusioned to be good anymore.

…and another thing, teaching staff……………………

Thought I’d add some of the factors I have witnessed, some already mentioned,
1) Lack of exposure to aircraft for the general public. As already mentioned here, reduction in no. different current types at airshows, reduction in the size of the RAF, loss of most of the UK’s aerospace manufacturing industry. The public don’t think we do aircraft here anymore. Sometime ago I mentioned to a non aviation friend that there were approx 10,000 GA aircraft in the country (bit less now) and they were genuinely shocked that it was such a large number. They thought the RAF must have the most !

I was on the tube about 15 years ago when the gentleman sat next to me enquired what I was reading as I thumbed through the latest issue of Flypast. I explained the vintage aviation world to him as best I could. He was intrigued by it all and had no idea such a movement/interest existed.

2) It’s perceived to be for the rich only so people assume there is no point trying even if they are a bit interested.

3) Increased cost of living. The youngsters where I work cannot afford a house let alone an “expensive hobby” like flying. One of the reasons I put my gliding on hold was the cost when I bought my first house. That was 20 years ago when it was nowhere near as bad.

If we take note of the comments about dumbing down of things and say well at least the increased number of graduates means that there should be people who can do exams we have to consider the large debts they come out of the education system with.

4) Increased number of alternative pastimes and the plug and play generation. GA is time consuming and weather dependent. People are now used to instant gratification.

5) PC Flight sims. I held out, but I succumbed when I had children. I know it’s nowhere near the same as the real thing but a lot of us don’t have time for the real thing anymore even if we had the money.

6) Children don’t make model planes anymore (apart from my house where it is compulsory).

7) You can’t pull over to do Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr or text at 2,000 ft.

Just adding my experiences into the discussion as I felt they are relevant.

I have confidence in my country to innovate & invent, I spend some of my time on Outreach sessions talking to schools about the spacecraft we build, trying to inspire the next generation into STEM subjects so they get to innovate and invent. It is heartening to see the children’s enthusiasm.

The fact that we are discussing this on an aircraft forum implies most people here have some interest in STEM, but in my experience, a significant portion of the country doesn’t give a stuff. I feel like the BEF fighting a rearguard action at Dunkirk sometimes defending British engineering. I feel like a curiosity, “oh you’re an engineer, do we still do that in this country ?” is the response. Maybe I live too near the London commuter belt. I can rant about this for hours so I’ll stop there as it’s getting off topic.

What we all seem to lack is the cold hard facts of what’s good and what’s bad.

Here’s my contribution fwiw. I can only add to the industry/trade part of the argument.

Having worked in the Aerospace industry for 25 years I see on a daily basis how integrated our trade is with Europe. I work in an office which is mainly British but has a fair number of French, Spanish and other Europeans in it. We are a multinational company as are a lot of our competitors, suppliers and customers. Based on my experience moving around various parts of Europe following various projects we would be destroying a significant amount of trade and further crippling what industry we have left in this country if we leave. I have friends who work in the automotive industry and they have similar experience of this. I appreciate the concerns about our country’s ability to absorb other Europeans who may not be contributing to our country’s financial well being, though a lot of them do, but we should try to address this from within the EU first.

One significant conversation I had with some of my German and French friends/colleagues occurred in a pub in Germany where I was living at the time the Euro came in. I asked them what other Europeans though of the UK. The response was that they saw us as a somewhat troublesome island off the coast of Europe proper that only joined in when it suited, we only got a look in on some trade because we were in the gang. If we weren’t in the gang (the EU) then we wouldn’t be included. A bit like the unpopular kid at school who only got picked for the football team cos he was in the class. Come playtime, everyone ignored him and had a kick about without him.

So the question is do we lose more from staying in with dodgy rules about the shape of Bananas and foreigners sending child benefit back home (that’s my tax money !) but still have jobs for our youngsters to go into cause we don’t have an empire anymore and we’re not big enough to go it alone or do we pull up the drawbridge and stagnate ?

Also, If we do leave what do we do about foreign nationals that are already here ? My children have a significant number of first generation British classmates who’s parents are not indigenous but only know the UK as home. As a result of my wandering around Europe my children are half German as well !

Leaving the EU will be a costly mess, it won’t be like changing your bank. If we had a stronger manufacturing industry we might get away with Brexit, but we don’t. Based on my experiences I think it’s too risky.

A few comments as a parent on Hendon. Nipped in there yesterday with my 12 yr old and 10 yr old lad for a few hours on the way back from the London Model Engineering Exhibition. We hadn’t been since 2011 and we all found it as good as before, so no complaints from us. Despite protests from the youngsters I loitered in the Graeme White hangar which we missed last time. I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the Cauldron & the Dolphin which I had not seen before, I think they actually did as well even though they like WW2 & after.

In the other parts of the museum the accessible aircraft were a big hit again with the lads, these being the Chinook, Victor, Provost and Sunderland. They have also sat in the cockpit of the Solent Skies Sandringham and seen it’s civil interior so the military Sunderland was an interesting contrast to that.

A large portion of RAF aircraft and others are represented with lots of “whoa look it’s a …”. Their knowledge of these things having grow in the last 4 years. My eldest especially appreciated the rarer types like the JU 88, Me 262 & Stuka.

I didn’t feel the lighting in some of the other halls was as dingy as before but maybe that’s living with low energy LED bulbs at home these days.

So to sum up, two of the next generation suitably enthused and I enjoyed it the most out of my three visits (1986, 2011 & 2016).

Thought I’d nip home and watch. A27 Eastbound very slow from Emsworth to Chichester. Currently averaging 4 mph.

Quite good condition compared to the one on display in Sinsheim.