I doubt if Steve is concerned with accuate chronology, exact context or precise definitions

Have to side with Arthur. It’s an easy solution to describe historical facts as being leftwing. In fact Sauron, you might describe my semantic discussions as useless, however, defining the exact meaning is the first step. You can’t just ignore ‘these facts’ wheter you are right or leftwing. You can use an argument to prove your statement, but you can’t just invent ‘facts’, otherwise you make the same faults as the totallitarian regimes you all fear.

And I did matter for the Jews. In fact, it was even an Israeli commission who started a campaign against western-European gov’ts (Netherlands, Belgium and France) to recognise the holocaust as an isolated case from the rest of WWII.

Almost forgot Henry Ford. Replace the word “T-4” by “Jew” and one might have an idea of where the nazi’s got their idea of rationally exterminating a whole population. Ford was not a nazi, true, but you can hardly call him a “lefty”, can you?

“Teaching history is not useless” I hope. 🙂 Otherwise I’ll be damned (as long as the gov’t is giving my pay-checks though at the end of the month). Teaching history to a bunch of biased right/left-wingers is.

Grey Area,

You were right, I was wrong, sorry. Fascism indeed is a 20th century-term, I looked it up. 🙂 The mythology is 2000 years old though. But still I would be carefull defining racism. Saying your race is superior, as did Hitler, is pure racism. However, what with the more moderate interpretations of “if you don’t like it here, go back to your own country.” This may shock some people, but you can hardly call it racism. That’s what I meant.

Geforce, isnt being anti Jewish facist?

Nope. In fact, fascism was not racist at all. Sure, it was influenced during the war period but it’s starting point was not racist. Even nationalism doesn’t have to be racist (look at the US today, a “multicultural” world of intollerance). Nazism was anti-semite, anti-Gay, anti-slavic etc.

Did you know that the first decades after WII few talked about the Jewish suffering in the concentration camps? Dachau was used as a usefull tool to inform the public opinion about the dangers of totallitarianism (= communism), and hence, the holocaust itself deserved little attention untill the sixties.

Geforce you’re a right-winger? Maybe in Europe the definition of right versus left is the opposite because here in the States I’m a right-winger, and proud of it.

And as you know we agree on NOTHING….so I’m rather confused.

I honestly don’t’ care what anyone thinks about my beliefs. If they want to think I’m evil then so be it because I couldn’t care less.

No reason to get confused. Being rightwing doesn’t mean I am pro-Bush. I am rightwing in Belgium, but in the US I’ll be, a democrat, so leftwing.

Yes but the Euro was not meant for practical use either. In fact, monetarian unions aren’t that new, they existed already in the 19th century (Zollverein, Germany). If Australia and NZ can manage to make an agreement, why not? I think it’ would be a lot more easy between Aus and NZ than it was in Europe. Same language, no cold war (and 1000 years of constant war before).

GWB is a neo-conservative. AFAIK these neo-cons were very much inspired by a marxist American thinktank. Is that right? That could explain GWB’s trend to increase gov’t.

Cutting back on gov’t in all areas except national security. That sounds a bit like a totallitarian regime though, a “democratic totallitarian regime”, maybe. I can understand why Americans are afraid of their gov’t though, because it scares the sh!t out of people by all kinds of terrorist threats. A gov’t should not scare its people, in fact, it should call them down.

He was not even a conservative. They called themselves the “new world order”. They didn’t like catholicism either.

The Belgian front whishes you good lock and promises you not to post pictures of crashed Phantoms while you’re gone 🙂 (that’ll be quite low of us). Take care and don’t let the bed-bugs bite.

Yeah true, it’s always better to be moderate. But during some situaties (like war) you’ll HAVE to chose. that’s just fate of mankind. Grey is a nice thing for daily use, but there are situations where you have to chose, otherwise you are either naive or too lazy too make a choise.