RALLExcellent work!!
RALLTerrible update. Better old style forum.
RALL[USER=”76365″]RALL[/USER]
https://www.aorti.ru/media/news/byt-…artinku-tseli/New radar technologies are likely to be used to create the sixth generation fighter in the 2020s.
Next year. Ok, i can wait, it is soon.:D
RALLPanzerfeist, when do you believe we can see first rofar radar in a fighter jet totally operative?
10 years? 20 years?
RALLF-35 Advanced EOTS comparison.
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Advanced EOTS is Multi-Spectral and due to it’s “plug-n-Play design (with current F-35s), any image processing would be done in the unit itself.
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2019-09-17-Lockheed-Martin-Continues-Advanced-EOTS-Development
Maybe it’s a QWIP sensor?
Wow, it seems a tv image. Really impresive performance.
RALLWhat is similar? IR sensor. What is different? Laser. Is that so hard to conclude?
And if you think it doesn’t have IR sensor, fine, then explain us why they marketing all around IR scanning as part of Su-57 sensor package? With what it would do if 101KS package don’t have couple IR sensors around plane?
What I agree with you it isn’t same as DAS but it still provide 360deg IR picture, not instant though. But because we are talking about QWIP sensors, they are analog to AESA radars, scaning time is lot faster with them then with older gen Russian sensors.
I did not tell this. I think you need read again my posts.;) Do you have some link where they told Su-57 has all around IR scanning? Also, can you tell me how much time need an IR sensor for scanning 360º?
What i guess, and i told before, these two IR sensors inside DIRCM on top and on botton of the Su-57 are slaved to the 101KS-U. This ultraviolet package sensor tell to this IR sensor on DIRCM where they need look. What give 360 coberture to the Su-57 is the 101KS-U-
But it is only my opinion. I can be wrong or you.:eagerness:
RALLWhat my google lens android translation from Russian language:
SUBSYSTEM Optoelectronic
. System features similar to 101KC-V + blinding attacking missiles. Modules are located behind the cockpit and below.
The key word is “SIMILAR”. And “similar” does not mean “same”. For this it is not a IRST on same way than OLS-50. And they do not tell what features some similars….
Of course is a very ambiguous information.
RALLYou don’t need instant scanner for further threats for that KS101-O is more then enough. You need instant scanner only for close threats for example MANPADs, and 101KS-U is there for that.
Btw F-22 which have IR staring MAWS doesn’t have IR situation awareness capability. And no one say it is problem, while for you are say rotating IR sensors for IR SA are big problem. Also don’t forget OLS-50 sensor isn’t some old soviet tech it is QWIP sensor, something similar to AESA in radars. So even though it use rotating dome it scan very fast and can track lot of target, Pirate IRST sensor for example can track up to 200 targets if info on net is right.
Don´t need instant scanner if its not a DAS system, of course. If you look conversation from beggining, all started because LMFS think it can be similar to a DAS System. And i think oposite, because DAS need have fixed sensors.
MAWS of the F-22 is the father of the F-35´s DAS. So i dont know why you think it has not IR situation awareness capability.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170203190802/https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/mfc/pc/missile-launch-detector-mld/mfc-mld-pc.pdf
“Lockheed Martin’s AN/AAR-56 Missile Launch Detector (MLD) is a mature, affordable, defensive system capable of providing long-range detection and declaration of both airborne and surface-launched threats.”
The MWS and ALR-94 is what give to the F-22 the 360º situation awareness capability.
RALLI will have to respectfully disagree. Ols-K on mig-35 uses a non fixed , gimballed mirror design like what 101ks-o does, and covers 180 degrees(one ball is placed under the body and covers 180). While the fixed S-OAR sensors (IIR video imaging MAWS system analogous to DAS) cover sixty each.
It is what i was telling. it needs to be fixed sensors to working like a DAS.
The OLS-K on Mig-35 works similar than a targeting pod, in fact, can see a big bump covert it on the botton of the airplane.
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But it does not seem the case of the botton dircm of the Su-57, because for this they will use targeting pod. This is not normal on a stealth fighter. If you have a “Eots” on the botton, you dont need targetting pod. IMO al these 2 Dircm on Su-57 only work slaved to principal sensor, the KS101-U.
If you have a rotating IRST, how many time need for scan 180º? it is many time for it, and a missile it is only seconds for impact with airplane from 15-20 kms away. It has not any sense. Need to be fixed sensors for have minimum delay and covering few grades each sensor.
RALLYou are comparing apple to oranges, fix sensors with rotating ones. If you look position of F-35 DAS sensors they are cover same as Su-57 101KS-V and 101KS-O combo.
http://thumbnail.egloos.net/460×0/ht…785743cb6b.jpg101KS-V and lower 101KS-O covers same space as nose DAS sensors and 101KS-O also covers space which is covered by two lower DAS sensors. 101KS-O behind cockpit is almost on same position as two DAS sensors located also behind cockpit.
No.
What part you do not understand about you need instant scanner of totally 360 º around the airplane. It is impossible with rotating sensors, for this DAS has fixed sensors covering each one around 90º in real time. For this J-20 has similar sensors located than F-35.
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The only sensor covering on Su-57 360 º is the MWS KS101-U
RALLTrue!
We outlined the alternative possibility in posts #1866 and #1869. You can have a permanent UV coverage, which obviously is not going to have a huge reach, and (why not?) two additional IRSTs mounted in turrets (ideal location), scanning the airspace long-range (that is actually what IRSTs do) in two hemispheres above and below the aircraft. Not only I see it possible but in fact I think it would be a great idea :eagerness:
But it is not a DAS which can cover 360º. You need cover 360 º in real time with minimum delay. Only it is possible with fixed sensors.
RALL[USER=”76365″]RALL[/USER]
a Russian speaker is confirming that the translation is correct. I know how other DIRCM systems work but this description goes beyond that functionality. I suggest that we wait for more information.
I am not hurry, only we are talking about it, and this thread is the perfect place)
IMO it´s impossible is any kind of DAS System. You need 5-6 Irst with IIR for covering 360º; on a F-35 a field of regard of 1 eodas is around 90-95º. That is not the case with only 2 DIRCM, but also i dont think these 2 Dircm have any IIR capability. Of course, in future we will know exactly features of these dircm.
The only sensor on Su-57 covering 360º is the MWS KS101-U, for this it needs 5-6 sensors. IMO the Dircm on Su-57 is slaved to the KV101-U.
RALL[USER=”76365″]RALL[/USER]
I am only passing the info I found. The one you post was already known, the newer one contains some new data that we were not aware of. I understand your point, but I don’t have any more answers for what the manufacturer is stating. What do you think they mean?
Well, for me is clear when they make description on diferent sensors. They talk about 1 only IRST, called 101KS-V, but not 3 IRST, wich would have imaging infrared.
IMO the 101KS-O sensors are similar than ELBIT Dircm, and works on same way. The only different is that initial detection will come from 101KS-UV sensors.
https://www.opli.net/opli_magazine/e…it-mini-music/
“All systems in the MUSIC® family employ cutting edge technology including a unique fiber-laser based, directional infra-red countermeasure technology and a sealed turret for maximized reliability. The initial detection of incoming threats is provided by a missile warning system. When a threatening missile is detected, the warning is passed to the DIRCM that then directs a thermal tracker to acquire and track the threat.. A powerful laser beam is then fired accurately at the missile causing it to be deflected away from the aircraft.”
RALLFirst of all, we don’t exactly know how 101KS Atoll works and what the capabilities of the different subsystems are. UV MAWS is said to produce less false alarms than IR so 101KS-U may be the right approach as an all around missile detection system, but otherwise a IR DAS is more potent for general observation. An all-around IRST is no foolish idea to me and may be combined with the DIRCM turrets with low cost and platform impact, but we have not enough info, just that hint I posted. Another option is that the IR receiver is just there to help directing the the laser turret, I previously thought the missile location would be done by the 101KS-U alone.
I am totally agree, a IR DAS is the perfect option, no any debate about it. For this if you have a real DAS System, you dont need a MWS based UV as 101KS-U.
This is a commercial info, from company.
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Its very clear 101KS-O has no IRST on same way than 101KS-V is. A DAS System on same way to F-35 has search-track-attack capability, 101KS-O do not have. An the only system which provide information (apart frontal IRST) is the MWS 101KS-U.
RALLIt says function analogous to 101KS-V + DIRCM. But I have to rely on online translators, so this is not 100% sure. It would make sense in any way, to have optical coverage of the plane’s surroundings, so it looks like a sound possibility to me.
For what do you think exist 101KS-U? It does not have any sense to bring 2 different MWS systems with similar range capacities. Track of incoming missiles will be mainly with the 101KS-U. IR sensor of the 101KS-O will have very limited range, surely on the terminal phase of the incoming missiles. It is not a IRST/DAS System with a longer range. If it had long ranges, then 101KS-U would not have reason to exist.
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