RALLThe US uses a variety of threat emitters to mimic various weapon systems. The entire Combat training range where RF exercises take place is instrumented and set up as an Integrated air defense system operated from a control center. In that training range there are a variety of simulated threats:
short/Medium range SAM systems represented by the Joint Threat Emitter, highly mobile threat emitters, GPS jammers, pop up threat simulators.If you are interested there is a literal alphabet soup of threat systems and simulators: Multiple Threat Emitter System (MUTES), Mini-MUTES, Joint Threat Emitter (JTE), UMTE, Tactical Radar Threat Generator (TRTG), Mobile Command and Control Units (MC2U). Basically, on and on.
The new threat simulator series, Advanced Radar Threat System (ARTS) is beginning to come online next year with 4 different versions starting with ARTS-V2 simulating the latest short/Medium range Russian SAM systems.
On top of that, like Spud said, there are several versions of the S-300 system (some partially complete, others are nearly complete systems) that are rumored to support RF.
Thanks.
RALLThis is painfully obvious lol.
Because they are waiting on the izd 30 to become a serially produced item. The 117 batch has been reduced in size as they wait for izd 30 to be available and Knaaz to gear up its production line to accomodate serial orders.
Borisov said exactly as much, when he states there is no need to rush the program as it matures.
Yes i know about Izd 30, but we do not know exactly when it will be a reliable engine for enter on serial production, maybe 3-4 years or maybe more….
But you know on beggining they are talking about “around 67 units” for 2020 whith the currents engines,…after it was reduced to 12 and now will be 2 units. Of course, something happened and it was not because are waiting for the izd 30.
RALLGot a question on the s-400 and f-35s for Turkey. What amount of F-35s did turkey plan to order and what time frame was the original order supposed to end? Could have they just gotten the f-35s 1st and than order the s-400?
I think the 2 first turkish F-35 fighters are ready in USA. And it was sent to some training unit.
RALLIt’s clear that you know nothing about healthy debates. Spreading bull**** supported by a doubtful sources, groundless statements and sliding away from any answers backed by proofs is kinda a contrary thing to a “healthy debate”.
Results of 2018 for Russia: budget surplus of 2.74 trillion rubles. 42bn$ or 3.5 programs equal in cost to the PAK-FA. Russian economy is far from healthy shape, but it is “not broke enough” to not handle any important military program.
Then, which is the problem for we can not see a 100 unit orders contract for Su-57 fighter?
It seems russian officials are more interested about to sell this fighter to foreign countries as China or India than to acquire a significant number of units for RuAF. A bit strange if the problem is not money, do not you think? or really this program is far from being a mature program…
RALLPick the costs of acquiring some fourty Eurofighter T3´s, for the Esercito (or the Luftwaffe) then multiply by two… or three. That would be the cost of implementing an entirely new aircraft into their fleet. The Phoon is already the backbone of their fleets, the suport, training, logistics are already in place.
The possible acquisition of F-35A´s by the Ejercito Del Aire “around middle of next century” looks very much dead.
Unless a) Airbus gets out of Spain or b) the SCAF program crashes and burns or c) an entirely new Spanish Government makes a very radical U turn, the Spanish Air Force wont see Dave A in their colours.
The Navy is trying to maintain some sort of hope for their fighter force, good luck, they are going to need it.
SCAF program do not have nothing to do with adquisition or not of F-35 A.
SCAF bornt to replace currents EF´s and RAFALE on 2040 decade. We need replacement for around 80 F-18 before 2030 and it is not possible with only 30 or 40 more EF´s.
It is very clear preference from Ejercito del Aire is to have a mixture force with EF and F-35. So, F-35 A is open on this moment. Time will tell if finally version A will come around 2025-2030. But sure F-35B will come.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-us…-idUKKCN1RG2O7 [INDENT]In written testimony submitted to the U.S. House of Representatives and seen by Reuters, Vice Admiral Mathias Winter – the head of the Pentagon’s F-35 office – said that “future potential Foreign Military Sales customers include Singapore, Greece, Romania, Spain and Poland.”[/INDENT]
RALLThe fly-away unit price per T3 Eurofighter is probably not much different compared to an F-35. The primary cost driver for the F-35 compared to the Eurofighter would be the establishment of the support infrastructure and logistics in general. Those costs are significant and are the typical reason why the “system price” is often twice as high or higher than the fly-away price. There are ofcourse other factors such as the overall number of aircraft and how they are spread over units and airfields. Most cost comparisons are apples and oranges as the detailed cost breakdown is usually missing and as different offers are mostly not comparable.
Yes, but if you need to buy 50 EF, then with 35 F-35 is enough for to make same missions. So your unit/cost and total cost will be a lot less on the case of F-35 A. And less pilots are necesary too. Cost of new infraestructures is for all life of the F-35 (30-40 years), and you do not pay already on first month.
Unit cost of EF is around 100 million euros, not less than this sure, for germany many years ago it was 90 million euros, so now will be worst. F-35 A is 89 million dollars on this moment, that is around 80 million euros now.
Per hour operating cost of the F-35 A will be around 25.000 dollars at 2025 american official told, less than F-16. And for EF is similar to this number.
RALLOn recent flag exercises, somebody know exactly types of SAM threaths? have USA some russian SAMs for to simulate on these exercises?
RALLFinally the best news we received today
Maybe it will be not the only thing you can enjoy nextly according to declarations of the Vicesecretary Pence.
RALLI was well aware of Urcelays comments at the moment of making mine. Only I don’t see who in the Spanish government will authorize the bill for the F35B plus I don’t consider this embarked wing as a particularly interesting capability when considering Spanish logistics, budgets, international policies and approach to conflicts. Now, in here (https://publicaciones.defensa.gob.es…istas-pdf.html) you can download the Spanish defense magazine and when taking a look to page 44 where FCAS is considered, the information there is that 40 Eurofighter have been requested by the air force to substitute 80 F18s until FCAS arrives, no mention whatsoever to the F35. Plus in a recent comment in this regard what was stated was that F35 is the reference but that Eurofighter is the best option for Spain being that the reason why the Air Force has requested more Eurofighter. Which basically means”we would like to have F35 but for us (air force) the Eurofighter covers the needs plus we understand industrial considerations”
Not that I believe that F35 doors are completely closed in Spain, nor that I wouldn’t welcome a wing of F35A for the air force, but with current policies and budgets I think it is very unlikely to get them in the foreseeable future. FCAS and 40 more Eurofighter, however, are over the table as of now. Ones is the long term bet, the other the short term for substituting F18s and maintaining Spanish Eurofighter FAL open.
If you read what Admiral Urcelay told, is that F-35B is out of discussion. It can have more debate about F-35A but not about F-35B coming to Spain on next future. And it is logical, we have islands and it is necesary anfibious force with naval fighters.
And other thing…EF is expensive than F-35A. So, When you tell, that Spain can not buy F-35A because is expensive it does not have any sense to buy more expensive EF tranche 3. This is not logical and this is a political decition anyway.
The reason for get more EF, also political is because need get fast deliveries for to replace older F-18, and it is not possible buying now F-35A.
About what is talking Urcelay is about to buy F-35A around middle of next century when the last F-18 will need replacement, not now. You are talking about diferente things.
RALLIn which we already disclosed, India only contributed with $295Million. How far would you go with those on such a large program..
This losted money is better have it inside your pocket, it is many rubles millions really. And India decided do not spend more money on this program in a moment all was prepared for it. Now, everybody can think, why.
Personaly, i would not hold my breath. Its all Politicing(words).
Yes i am agree, but i guess this man talked about things technicians told to him or to some of its department…
Who was that?
I think he was some menber of the duma. It was some interview after few time India left program. It was attached on this same forum and people wrote manu about this statement. It is not nothing new.
Aha, the core of my previous post.. in which i seems to hit the nail on the head.
Su-57 is a SH, EF Rafale level on stealth rant.. completly ludicris
We know more or less which frontal RCS has EF or SH, or Rafale, because after time it was information from oficials of these programs. And it is around 0,5-1 m2.
We know because russian patent (included RAM coat) of the Su-57 it will be between 0,1-1 m2 its RCS. 10 times less than Su-27. Yes, it can be improved on real world, but you should be not wait big difference with published numbers.
For this really is similar data with these legacy fighters. And really if finally frontal RCS of the Su-57 will be better than published patent, it will be not big difference against radars on range detection vs legacy fighters as SH or EF. On this stage the most important will be sensors each one have for comparing it.
Yes, the all -“Seeing is believing”. A nice and comfy argument to hide behind, isn’t it.
Seriously, if you are concerned about what “Russian Officials” says, then they said there are lots of new missiles on the board,
Kinda silly to go the Extra mile and invest in such platform as Su-57, and NOT invest in any new missiles.
You need think the most times they talk about new improvements but never come or come very much time after and not when they told. It is facts we do not see firing from internal bays yet, we did not see new airtoair missiles to replace R-77 and R-73….they are working on it from centuries ago…
It is as first Aesa presented many years ago…and any current fighter bring it yet.
I think opinions are as the asses, everybody have one. But the important thing are the facts, not the words. I am not so optimist as you about all this. I do not tell on future Su-57 will be a dangerous fighter, but on this stage, it is nothing. I think it needs 5-10 years. Now it is very clear Turkey will be expulsed from F-35 Program, and Russia need take advantage about it and to look for Turkey joining Su-57 program. Then, they can to improve more fast than now, fresh money will be important for this program and unit/cost will down, because now it must to have a terrible cost/unit.
I do not wish eternal debate, you have your opinion, and i have mine, and we are not going to change it. I respect it.
RALLWould i remind you guys of how the last 15-20 years on this forum has been.
1st. Russia did do not have a chance in hell to develop a new modern class fighter jet with stealth requirements. Russia broke!!
2nd. 2010. Well its not a Stealth jet, cus protuding probes, antennas, round nozzles from AL-31F series engine bla bla.
3rd. 2018. We see both Idz 30 and PD-14 is happening, in which has silenced most, but now its; Well Russia cannot buy them, Russia still broke!!
Do you guys see a trend here?
1).- I see that India have left Su-57 program after put many money on it.:stupid:
1b).- Maybe erdogan will be happy to join program.:eagerness:
2).- I see that some russian official told Su-57 only slighter better than Su-35-S, for this they do not need many units at a very high cost/efficiency.
3).- I see that it is a LO design, but no VLO design, similar to eurocanards designed 20 years ago.
4).- I see it is a not mature airplane yet, no new air-to air missiles avalaible, no any decent video of firing from internal bays, with a very doubtful new avionics as Aesa (is there some new technology on Su-35 S (2014 service entrance) or other current aircraft from Su-57?:rolleyes:)…with a new IA more near than previous 4th generation fighters than new 5th generation fighters due to the very hight workload in the pilot….etctera…
5).- I see it is only 2 not finished units to RuAF to 2020, far away from initial plans.
6).- If i do not look all this, can tell everything is wonderful with this airplane at this stage.
IMO we need wait to 2025 and to think again if this airplane really is mature or not, on this moment is far away. While Russian officials are not stupid and they bought and will buy more Su-35 or other models.
RALLTurkey is on its right for buying militar items that they wish, and USA is on its right for selling F-35 to the countries that they think will be not a problem on future similar to the F-14´s Iranians.
So for me it is very clear USA need protect its intellectual property and they believe there are very serious concerns if Turkey finally buy S-400.
So, if Turkey will buy S-400, ergo will be no F-35 to Turkey. Easy understand this. Erdogan have easy solution if he wants. And if he does not want, no F-35. He can buy Su-57.
RALLWhy not create a joint air force / navy unit, flying core strategic missions on Spanish carrier (med and shore) and find some place on other Navies flatops to go joint (Italy, UK, USMC, Asia)? It’s not like a Bee (F35B) couldn’t cover all the Spanish peninsula. Increasing the number of Bee to match a well balanced ratio of the level needed by the Airforce will magically creates some room for savings…
Well, its an option, but i do not like really.
F-35 A is cheaper than F-35B, it has bigger weapons bay and bigger combat radius, so for Air force is better choose F-35 A.
F-35A and F-35B to share around 60-70% of the pieces, so in any case it will have good synergies.
RALLSpain has huge budget constraints, and lets face it, we simply don’t use this capabilities, neither do have the political will, or the economic and logistic capability to operate these LHD+F35B in any likely scenario where F35s might be required. The navy certainly has expresed its will for the acquisition of the F35s but there are several aspects that in my opinion make this purchase a bad business:
– Budgets
– Lack of active foreign military policies
– Lack of budget to support even a small carrier group overseas (that is, not so close to our coast that the SpAF couldn’t actually do the job)
– Lack of logistics to support that carrier group.
– Lack of industrial benefits of such a purchase (for anyone familiar with spanish un employment rates and the quality of the employment in the country that is a clear factor)
– Need to allocate budget to many other areas not only in the armed forces but in the armada itselfWe had the Principe de Asturias an their harriers roughtly 30 years docked in Rota and that’s probably what we will get out of the JCI + F35B.
I sincerely believe that for similar investment an evolved and additional batch of S80 submarines to consolidate our currently pitifull submarine capabilities would provide a much better service for the Navy while helping to consolidate Navantia’s submarine building capabilities.It would be nice to have them but it’s simply absurd in our situation and I hope that this will be acknowledged when taking the decission. However the chief of the dirección general de armamento y material (basically the person in charge of managing military acquisitions) might have a different view since it comes from the navy and has no problems in possing with a F35B reproduction in spanish colors over his desk (https://www.infodefensa.com/es/2019/…ioridades.html).
Admiral Urcelay, from few days ago.
https://www.infodefensa.com/es/2019/…r-harrier.html
They are working for get F-35B for Armada and in cooperation with Air force F-35 A.
But F-35B is out of question. It will come 12-15 units for Navy. It does not matter if finally dont come F-35 A for air force. Very clear what he told.
*************
On this year will come new contract for 20-30 EF´s for to replace most old F-18 (after elections surely) because are most fast delivery than F-35, and later (2025-2030) it is possible will come some contract for F-35A for to replace rest of the F-18´s. But F-35 B (12-15 units) for navy will come without any doubt.
New european fighter will come around 2035 for to replace most old EF´s in spanish air force.
RALLI made one for self protection. Download here: https://ufile.io/s72e3
5 Megawatt radar
10 Watt jammer
Target RCS: 0.01 m2
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Target rcs from who?
From airplane which is jammed or Rcs from own airplane?
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