BayarMyself and (I believe Bring-it-on) stated the same reason… multiple times. Turkey wanted to (and had already started contracts) to integrate the F-35 with their own defense information systems network, HvBS. The Turkish F-35’s data collection, SIGINT, EW, Cyberwarfare information would be linked to this network. And while it’s true that the S-400 cannot be connected to the NATO air defense network, the Turkish Undersecretary for Defense had announced that Turkey was going to link the S-400 the Turkish airforce information network, this HvBS.
Like the F-35, the S-400 is a collection node for signatures, ELINT, SIGINT. Unlike the F-35, Turkey will not have access to that collected information, and Russian statements on the S-400 purchase made it clear that Turkey is buying “off the shelf” with no access to the S-400’s coding. To make matters worse, the S-400 is a networked system, all the various components connected. Turkey wouldn’t have any idea of a potential “backdoor”, or any possible Russian remote access to the Turkish S-400 networked systems. It is an unacceptable risk for the most sensitive technologies on the F-35, it’s MDF’s, threat detection, comms, and EW systems.
Since I know your going to ask “doesn’t that go both ways?” the answer is “no” not. The S-400 (even if capable of doing so) isn’t going to be sharing ELINT/SIGINT data on Russian systems it collects with Turkey the way the F-35 does, nor EW countermeasures to said systems.
Quoting a recent comment from a US Airforce General, “You don’t link your computer to an adversary’s computer.
What you fail to realise is that Turkey controls what data enters and exits the HvBS (Hava Kuvvetleri Bilgi Sistemi). The S-400’s, F-35’s etc can seek additional information from the HvBS but it wont get it and vice versa.
Also Greece has the F-16’s and S-300. Isn’t the S-300 a computer?
BayarHow is the weapons bays compatibility of those missiles?
They are modular missile systems. The SOM-A and SOM-B1/B2 were modified for the F-35 Internal Weapons bay to form the SOM-J.
Turkey can easily modify its missile systems for use on the internal weapons bays of the Su-57. For land attack role (beast mode) the missiles would not need any modifications as they would be held on external hard points.
BayarMoscow to approve export of the Su-57E to China and Turkey: https://sputniknews.com/military/201…y-Export-Su57/
Turkish media confirms announcement and is reporting that President Erdogan and Putin will hold meeting on issue late this month at the upcoming Russia-Turkey Cooperation Council meeting.
Can’t wait to see the Su-57T with the SOM cruise missiles and Turkish Air to Air missiles.
BayarA serious break between Turkey and the West would be nothing short of a “catastrophe”. For the Turkish Military and Defense Industry. As most of the Weapon Systems are Western in design or have a large Western Content. In addition Turkey also does a lot of Commercial Trade with them too!
So, to trade all of that for just the “S-400” would have to be the biggest “blunders” of all time. :rolleyes:
Give us a break [USER=”1416″]Scooter[/USER] the US is not the only global weapons supplier in this world. Those days are over. Countries want and seek alternatives to the US nowadays.
Nothing will change for Turkey.
What is the worst that will happen? BAE Systems will pull out from the consultancy contract with Turkish Aerospace for the TF-X? It will merely be replaced with the 2nd and 3rd winners of the tender: Russian and Chinese firms. Turkey will still get its indigenous Jets.
BayarTurkey has ferried one Airbus A400M worth of equipment to to where its F35’s are stationed in the US and also claim they have Top Secret level info on the planes. Turkish media says Turkish Pilots have obtained valuable secret info on how the Jets operate
BayarAfew weeks ago when the politicians were discussing what was more important for Turkey: the S-400 or F-35….You do realize Turkey has 2 F-35’s in the US used by its pilots and ground crew for training purposes?
BayarI presume you are writing in an “ironic” fashion to Scooter’s nonsense?
There is slight merit to the claims made- Turkish officials have claimed that the F-35’s are easily susceptible to Cyberwarfer/EW and labelled the aircraft as flying IPADS
BayarIn the meantime it looks like China is due to be the first export customer of the Su-57…http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/201408/china-expects-russia-to-offer-su_57%2C-its-%27best-warplane%27.html
BayarNow that the Pentagon has suspended the delivery of the F-35’s to Turkey (See https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/01/politics/us-f-35-suspend-turkey/index.html and https://thehill.com/policy/defense/436789-us-cancels-shipments-of-f-35-equipment-to-turkey-report) can we discuss how Russia and Turkey can “Westernize” the Su-57 for Turkey.
What type of mission computer (modular etc) does the Su-57 use, what type of coding does it employ etc
Delivery timeframes etc
BayarFinally the best news we received today
DOD suspends F-35 deliveries to Turkey The Defense Department has suspended delivery of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to Turkey in response to Turkey’s continued acquisition of the Russian-made S-400 missile defense system, according to a statement from the Pentagon.
“The United States has been clear that Turkey’s acquisition of the S-400 is unacceptable,” acting chief Pentagon spokesman Charles Summers said. “Our important dialogue on this matter will continue, however, until they forgo delivery of the S-400, the United States has suspended deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability. Should Turkey procure the S-400, their continued participation in the F-35 program is at risk.”
Summers said DOD is also seeking secondary sources of supply for Turkish-produced F-35 parts.
“We very much regret the current situation facing our F-35 partnership with Turkey, and the DOD is taking prudent steps to protect the shared investments made in our critical technology,” he said.
203086
BayarAs I have said countless times. This is all politics plain and simple. As who in their right mind would trade F-35’s for Su-57’s and S400’s. :stupid:
It depends:
For a US vassal State that has no independent foreign policy the F-35 is ideal.
For a country that wants full operational sovereignty you need access to source codes. Only the Chinese and Russians offer Turkey co-production with access to source codes. Obviously so they can drive a wedge between NATO but who cares. Turkey gets what it wants!
BayarTurkey May Buy Russian Su-57 Jets, If Delivery of F-35 Jets Suspended – Reports
https://sputniknews.com/world/201805…buy-russia-us/
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Ankara is likely to buy Russian Su-57 fighter jets if Washington decides to suspend the delivery of F-35 jets in response to the purchase of Russian S-400 anti-missile systems, the Yeni Safak newspaper reported Sunday.
According to sources, the Russian-Turkish cooperation on military software and technology exchange discussed during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to Turkey on April 3 may also include the delivery of Sukhoi jets, namely the Su-57, a direct competitor of the F-35, the Yeni Safak newspaper reported.
Russia and Turkey signed a loan agreement last December to supply S-400 air defense systems to Ankara. The deal triggered disagreements between Turkey and the United States, with the latter threatening to impose sanctions against Ankara, as Washington believes that the weapon was incompatible with NATO defenses. On Friday, Putin criticized the United States for trying to force Turkey out of the deal with Russia.
On Thursday, US Senate Armed Services Committee released details of its version of annual defense policy bill. The draft, in particular, implies that the delivery of US F-35 jets to Turkey should be suspended in response to Ankara’s purchase of Russian S-400 anti-missile systems.
Russia’s Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet, formerly known as Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK FA), is a single-seat, twin-engine multirole “stealth” aircraft designed for air superiority and attack roles. It is equipped with an advanced avionics system and airborne active phased array radar as well as with a variety of high-precision weaponry. The jet carried out its maiden flight in 2010 and is still being tested by the military.
Russia’s Fifth-Generation Su-57 Jet Already Has Export Permit – Source https://sputniknews.com/military/201903291073647728-russia-su-57-fighter-jet-export/
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russia’s Sukhoi Su-57 (also known as the PAK FA product and T-50) fifth-generation fighter jet already has an export permit, and the Russian government is currently reviewing documents to officially rename the aircraft from T-50 internal designation to Su-57, a source in the aviation industry told Sputnik Friday.
“The PAK FA already has an export passport. The government is currently reviewing documents related to renaming the jet from T-50 to Su-57”, the source said.
On Thursday, Janes media outlet reported, citing Viktor Kladov, Rostec’s foreign cooperation director, that Rostec had submitted all the necessary documents to the Russian government to secure an export permit. Russian President Vladimir Putin is expected to give the final approval in a few weeks, the media added.
According to state corporation Rostec’s director for international cooperation, India has shown great interest in the newest Russian fighter jet. Separately, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu suggested last year that Turkey may buy Russian fighter jetsif the United States fails to supply Ankara with F-35 fighters.
The Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet, formerly known as Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK FA), is a single-seat, twin-engine multirole “stealth” aircraft designed for air superiority and attack roles. It is equipped with an advanced avionics system and airborne active phased array radar as well as with a variety of high-precision weaponry. The jet carried out its maiden flight in 2010 and is still being tested by the military.
Last year, Russia briefly deployed two advanced Su-57 fighter jets in Syria on combat training missions.
BayarJapan’s F-35 and F-3 purchases replace different needs and outgoing aircraft. They need both and their force structure reflects that. Despite having a tech demonstrator in the air, sensors in advanced testing, and engines in testing as well they cannot field the F-3 before the early to mid 2030’s which is consistent with the time it has taken everyone else to develop and test a 5th generation aircraft. Once the F-3 is ready, it will replace other ageing types in their Air Force not F-35s.
Every newcomer to the 5th Gen. bandwagon intends full volume production to be after the 2030’s…
Even the TF-X full volume production (Final Operational Capability) is scheduled for 2030 on wards. Prototypes are the only things that will be flying after 2023 on wards for detailed design review phase.
It however shows that most F-35 users do not want to solely rely on the F-35 which has been touted by the US as a multi-role 5th Gen fighter.
Like Japan the TF-X is intended to replace Turkey’s F-16 fleet. The F-35 was intended to replace Turkey’s F-4 2020 fleet.
[ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:”Click image for larger version Name:tDrfWFiSWkAca2HD.jpg Views:t0 Size:t130.6 KB ID:t3857611″,”data-align”:”none”,”data-attachmentid”:”3857611″,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”DrfWFiSWkAca2HD.jpg”}[/ATTACH]
BayarJapan has plans for a total of 147 F-35 A/B for their “stopgap, limited number”. Try harder Bayar.
Hey maybe they can join the non-exsistent Turkish 5th generation fighter project. Erodogan has the best minds in Turkish aerospace turning out more table models and CGI renderings as we speak.
Re-read the article above- it is obvious you have not.
Here is another source for you: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/japans-new-f-3-fighter-why-not-just-buy-more-f-35s-44712
BayarYes, clearly India should pay for an inferior product since they want to succumb to their geopolitical pressures. The U.S. would rather have partners with good sense..
(1) The presumption that everything US made is a superior product is nothing but a fallacy.
(2) Off-the-shelf purchases from the US merely kill your local industry and technological development capabilities.
(3) Co-production and co-development deals result in piecemeal transfer of technology and know-how.
(4) It is obvious that India would not get the best of engines with a co-development/co-production program from non-US suppliers but it will enable it to obtain the required technology to develop a great engine over time.
(5) If a smaller country like Turkey can achieve this- India can without a question.
Sign In
