hopsalot
Right, so like I said, a hypocrite.You think Turkey has a right to operate in Iraq, arm and train proxies, etc, in support of its interests but get all bent out of shape if the US does the same in Syria.
Every country has a duty to protect its citizens and interests. Just like the US and other Western States Turkey has its own interests.
The current war in the Middle East is all about this:
Who will control Europe’s energy supply routes.
The 15 July 2016 coup attempt against President Erdogan;
The Syria crisis;
The Qatar blockade;
The Turkey-Cyprus negotiations;
The Turkey-Russia rapprochement/ shooting down of Russian fighter
All of the above are the product of these pipeline wars.

Turkey (really President Erdogan) gave the middle finger to Europe and the US when it in response to the coup signed the Turkish Stream deal with Russia triggering a massive pipeline war. Mr. Putin strengthened President Erdogan’s hand against Europe and the US by agreeing to sell Russian gas to Europe via Turkey as opposed to via Ukraine. In return Turkey abandoned its role in the Western alliance in Syria switching to the Russia-Iran-Syria axis. In response Mr. Trump called for a blockade against Qatar so that it could no longer supply its gas to Europe via Turkey (which would have strengthened Turkey’s position more). Mr. Trump thought Mr. Erdogan would not enter an agreement with Iran in response. Now Qatari gas will go through Iran to Turkey and join with the BTC pipeline. Kazakh gas will also go through Iran to Turkey.

hopsalot
Quote Originally Posted by Bayar
Hopsalot- the Turkish Republic relies on Treaties signed by Turkey and Saddam Hussein and also agreements signed between the Turkish Republic and Britain.Iraq signed an agreement that says Turkey can invade when it wants to? Lets see it.
In any event, Turkey views the PKK a terrorist organisation that affects its national security and territorial integrity. If its neighbours cannot secure their borders and eradicate the PKK, Turkey can and will take its own steps even if it means entering these neighbouring countries to do the same. If the US can come from 20,000km away to eradicate terrorism so can Turkey on its doorstep.
Admit it, you are just a regular old hypocrite.
Iraq should first gets its own house under control before seeking to make threats/demands against the world’s 6th largest military power. Make no mistake the Turkish Armed Forces will continue with cross-border operations until Iraq prevents cross-border attacks on Turkey by the PKK and other proxies. The Iraqi Government needs to realize that there is only a finite time that Washington can protect Iraq. When the oil is finished the US will leave. However Turkey will always be a neighbour.
If Iraq continues its belligerence against Turkey it will have no drinking water within 10 years time. Turkey controls the flow from the Euphrates and Tigris.
In any event Turkey’s response to this issue is here: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/bashiqa-base-in-northern-iraq-will-stay-president-erdogan.aspx?pageID=238&nID=105000&NewsCatID=510
Its just so lame.. US is completely betting on YPG, now that FSA is out flanked and locked tight on Jordan/Syrian borders.
And the US made up “deconflict zones”.. wtf is that about??This is gonna go from US proxy failure to something worse in Syria.
US cannot invoke Articles 5 in Syria. They cannot get anything passed in UN, should there be any clash of Titans.
Safe to say, US has failed in their ME effort after DS in Iraq.
And likewise Russia and Iran has picked up the pieces. Once ISIS is gone, there will come a Russian, SAA, Iran push against Northern Syria. Might just be that Turkey will join in on this too.And the most interesting of this, what will the Iraqi PMU army do? So far it looks like they are on SAA side.
Turkey is preparing for something very big. This is evident from the type and number of arms it is procuring/producing. E.g. Why is Mr. Putin transferring S-400 technology to Turkey all of a sudden with a delivery date of 2 years? Russia + Iran + Turkey I believe have a post-war plan for Syria. Each have created safe zones and secured the safety of many displaced Syrians.
What is really interesting is the fact that Turkey is also training about 150,000 Syrian refugees in Turkey. It is essentially forming a Syrian army from its 3 million refugees.
I think it is also safe to assume that Turkey has sided with Russia in Syria now after Washington’s insistence on arming a Kurdish terrorist group against ISIS.
Hopsalot- the Turkish Republic relies on Treaties signed by Turkey and Saddam Hussein and also agreements signed between the Turkish Republic and Britain.
In any event, Turkey views the PKK a terrorist organisation that affects its national security and territorial integrity. If its neighbours cannot secure their borders and eradicate the PKK, Turkey can and will take its own steps even if it means entering these neighbouring countries to do the same. If the US can come from 20,000km away to eradicate terrorism so can Turkey on its doorstep.
The US has (unfortunately) from time to time worked with various dubious organizations in different parts of the world to reach a specific objective. This does not mean that the US is embracing the long-term goal of that organization. It’s just the “enemy of my enemy” thingy.
I also don’t think Turkey has completely clean hands in this respect.
Turkey, Iran, Russia etc are all sovereign State actors vis-a-vis Syria who each have legitimate interests in Syria recognized under International Law. What business does non-State actors such as the YPG have in Syria?
Turkey has certain rights in Syria under the Treaty of Ankara.
Turkey also has a sovereign enclave landlocked within Syria: the Tomb of Suleyman Shah.
Turkey has a Turkomen minority in Syria that it protects pursuant to old Treaties arising from the fact that Turkey was the former colonial power in Syria.
Turkey has a right to self-defence under international law to prevent cross-border attacks from within Syria.
Russia and Iran have formal Treaties with the Syrian Arab Republic that secure their position as formal allies.
Russia has several bases in Syria.
What business does the US and other coalition forces have in Syria now that the threat of ISIS is being handled by the Russia-Iran-Turkey-Syria mechanism?
Under what Authority does the US Air Force shoot and down a Syrian Arab Republic fighter jet operating within Sovereign Syria?
Why is the US providing air-cover for a non-State actor in Syria? This is a blatant invasion using proxies.
I usually try to ignore some of the more bonkers conspiracy theory stuff that shows up in this thread but this might take the cake.
The US is trying to establish a “marxist-lenninist Kurdish State which cuts off Turkey from the Arab and Islamic worlds?”
That reads like someone grabbed a handful of words at random from a bag and arranged them into a sentence.
Is not the US supporting the YPG in Syria?
Did not CENTCOM say that the YPG is the best force on the ground against DAESH in Syria?
Is not the US arming the YPG?
Is not the YPG a marxist-lennist offshoot of the PKK?
Does not the YPG intend to seek to create ROJAVA?
Is not the Turkish Republic seeking to counter YPG independence?
Or is all of the above part of some big conspiracy theory?
US concerned by Turkish dealings with Russia, but won’t say why
https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2017/06/19/us-concerned-by-turkish-dealings-with-russia-but-wont-say-whyRAGIP SOYLU @ragipsoylu, WASHINGTON
Published: 17 hours agoTillerson’s remarks that the U.S. was concerned with the developing relations between Turkey and Russia was not eloborated on despite Daily Sabah’s insistent attempts.
The remarks came amid growing discussions on the Trump administration’s alleged ties with Moscow.
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said last Wednesday that they are concerned about Turkey’s engagement with Russia, but failed to elaborate. Daily Sabah’s further attempts to materialize the cause of these concerns did not bear any fruit either.A spokesperson for the U.S. State Department over the weekend refused to explain why exactly the U.S. was concerned about Turkey’s dealings with its biggest neighbor. The spokesperson said the department had nothing to add on Tillerson’s vague statement.
Tillerson’s remarks are the first reaction from the Donald Trump administration toward the burgeoning Turkish-Russian relationship. A Washington insider said Tillerson’s acknowledging concern about Turkish-Russian engagements was quite entertaining since the Trump administration was accused of colluding with Russia for almost a year now.
Tillerson himself criticized the U.S. Senate for passing rather tough Russia sanctions last week, telling the senators that the bill would preclude the constructive dialogue with Moscow.
There are several rumors that are explaining Tillerson’s remarks. One of them is Turkey’s energy deals with Russia, specifically the so-called TurkStream pipeline that would bring Russian gas to Europe, bypassing Ukraine.
Turkey has also been working with Moscow and Tehran to deliver a cease-fire in Syria, without the U.S.’s blessing.
The pretext was “fighting ISIS”. The real reason is- the creation of a new US-allied State in the Middle East: a marxist-leninist Kurdistan.
Kadir Üstün, the executive director of Washington-based think tank SETA DC, says Turkey had sought to cooperate with Russia in Syria to try and protect its security interests and priorities. Üstün also said that the U.S.’s support for the PKK terrorist group’s Syrian branch has been further straining relations.
“U.S. support for the YPG, otherwise known as People’s Protection Units, has deeply upset Turkey, which is a holdover policy from the [Barack] Obama administration. But the Trump administration’s continuation of the policy is further straining relations,” he said.
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan declared last month that Turkey and Russia were in the final stage to sign a deal on S-400 air defense systems. The move has already caused widespread backlash among NATO capitals. Ankara’s explanation for this deal is Russia’s competitive advantage over NATO systems, in terms of financing and the transfer of know-how.
“[The purchase] might further strain Turkey-U.S. relations but Turkey is trying to find a solution to threats coming from terrorist groups in northern Syria,” Üstün said.
It is not immediately clear what Ankara’s response will be. But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov did not miss the opportunity to comment. He said he was surprised by Tillerson’s statement, according to a report that appeared on Ria Novosti.
“Russia and Turkey, together with Iran and other countries are already working to resolve the Syrian crisis. I do not know which aspect of our rapprochement Rex Tillerson is anxious about,” he said.
However there is a bright side. Tillerson’s remarks last Wednesday also included a highlight on the Trump administration’s approach to Turkey.
Tillerson said the U.S.’s objective was not to worsen the complex relationship but find ways to re-engage and strengthen it so that the U.S. could have some influence over Turkey’s choices, particularly with respect to the quality of Turkish democracy.
There is also some unconfirmed news reports that Turkey is also transferring MANPADS and Roketsan fire and forget anti-tank missiles to the Free Syria Army.
It looks like someone is upset Turkey + Russia + Iran removed the pretext under which the US & Coalition entered Syria.
The de jure pretext was “fighting ISIS”. The de facto reason is for the creation of a US-allied marxist-lenninist Kurdish State on Syrian territory which cuts off Turkey from the Arab and Islamic worlds thereby killing any dreams of a pax neo-Ottomana in the region.
JSR not just household good item manufacturers. Turkish companies now also own some critical German aerospace companies. For example, the Turks have bought all rights and intellectual property relating to the Fairchild Dornier 328 series and are developing a larger variant dubbed the TRJ-728.
Turkey now has significant leverage over Europe due to the refugee crisis, pipelines and 4 million Turks living in Germany with direct familial ties to Turkey. Germany can never “discipline” the Turks and it is this mentality that is causing disunity within NATO and the EU.
KGB
It is great to see some nations will avoid falling into the F 35 black hole.
Many countries invested in the F-35 not solely for defence purposes but also political purposes. Turkey for instance is stuck with the JSF program because if it withdraws now many will interpret this as a solidification of its move East. However, the TuAF are not entirely convinced that the F-35 will address all its operational needs and is thus looking for other complimentary fighter platforms. I think Europe is now also coming to realise this and is looking at alternatives.
Furthermore, the air threats are also now changing rapidly and aircraft manufacturers need to address these.
bring_it_on
250 x TF-X (to be introduced from 2023 onwards)
Good luck to the TF-X team in achieving that.
Thats the official number according to many sources: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/turkey-s-tf-x-fighter-throws-a-lifeline-to-uk-military-aerospace/
Turkish Aerospace Industries produced 300 F-16’s back in the 1980s under licence from Lockheed Martin.
The company has a lot of experience with large volume production.
In any event going by the average combat aircraft in the TuAF fleet (averages 400 combat aircraft)- Turkey will need to either produce 250 TF-X or procure another 250 combat aircraft from elsewhere.
Airbus should invite the UK and Turkey into this program as they would get large orders from these 2 countries alone.
TuAF Present Inventory
240 x F-16 CCIP and Advanced Block 50+
49 x F-4/2020
32 x NF-5/2000
N.B. The TuAF have retired in excess of 80 F-4E
The TuAF has plans for:
116 x F-35 (to be introduced early 2018 onwards)
250 x TF-X (to be introduced from 2023 onwards)
Total: 366 Combat Aircraft
Future Turkish Requirements
Turkey currently has on order 1 LHD which will require 16 F-35 VTOL and another LHD planned which will require another 16 F-35’s.
Turkey will also have fully operational bases in Qatar, Somalia, Dijibouti and Cyprus which will require combat aircraft to be stationed there.
Thus, Turkey will require approximately between 100 to 150 more combat aircraft to maintain their quantitative and qualitative advantage in the region 2040 onwards. Both the F-35 and TF-X would be about 20 years old then.
Mrmalaya, there is some NATO technology that BAE systems cannot share with Japan. Whereas, Turkey is already privy to all NATO STAGNAG’s, IFF systems, UAI technology etc. Hence, why the BAE-Turkish Aerospace Industries program will be more advanced than any deal with UK-Japan.
The Turkey-UK agreement is also a Government to Government agreement. I dont know whether this is the case with Japan and the United Kingdom. The Turkey-UK agreement also states that the technology developed may be used by the Royal Air Force and that Turkey will not charge a licence fee etc for this.
Qatar signs $12 billion deal to buy F-15 jets from U.S.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-boeing-idUSKBN19531Y