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Bayar

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  • in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154640
    Bayar
    Participant

    But even if true, such coup attempt wouldn’t be executed without a reason.. What could it be?

    Turkey would not allow the creation of an independent Kurdistan in Syria. This had widespread implications for US interests in the region.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154641
    Bayar
    Participant

    Any sources to support the claim that he believes the coup was arranged by “NATO’s clandestine groups”?

    He made statements to this effect on the 2nd day of the coup attempt whilst visiting the Police Special Forces HQ that was bombed by the coup plotters with F-16’s.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154663
    Bayar
    Participant

    The Turkey-Russia rapprochement and subsequent Strategic Partnership is President Erdogan’s sweet revenge from the West for the 15 July coup attempt to overthrow him – he believes the coup was orchestrated by NATO’s clandestine groups.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154691
    Bayar
    Participant

    UPDATE:

    President Erdogan of Turkey will be making an official State Visit to Russia on 9 and 10 March 2017 to conclude talks and sign agreement for S-400 deal.

    Russian Politics & Diplomacy February 24, 15:05 UTC+3
    http://tass.com/politics/932633

    MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. The date for visit of Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Moscow is agreed – March 9-10, press secretary of the Russian president told TASS.

    “Yes, the visit’s date is agreed,” he said in response to a request to comment on information from Turkey’s NTV, claiming Erdogan is to visit Moscow on March 9-10.
    “I confirm it,” Dmitry Peskov said.

    The Turkish television channel said about a planned bilateral meeting of presidents, and a meeting of the High-Level Russian-Turkish Cooperation Council. The parties to the negotiations plan to discuss a wide range of issues, including supplies of Russian S-400 missile systems to Turkey. The television channel, however, has not named source of the information.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154700
    Bayar
    Participant

    they are selling it to China and India those countries are as much westernized as Turkey. the issue is more can Turkey afford it? as rest of turkey programmes are extremely slow to implement.

    Funding is no issue. The Gulf States (especially Qatar and Saudi Arabia) have been funding Turkey’s R&D projects.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154708
    Bayar
    Participant

    so if Turkey is so good in tech why it need so many subcontractors for submarine upgrades?

    Because the end user has selected those companies. Turkey is overall contractor doing all the integration work.

    One would note that Turkey’s own U-214TN submarines use entirely Turkish sub-systems and that HDW only provides propulsion kits to Turkish shipyards.

    Turkey also has its own AIP submarine program dubbed the MILDEN.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154972
    Bayar
    Participant

    Well that CAFRAD radar system sounds indeed impressive and technologically on pair with some of the S-400s radar components.

    Lets see when its produced, articles state that development is completed in 2015 while its about to be deployed in 2023? A little ahead of schedule and a quite huge jump for Turkey to a SPY-1 level system.

    There are several working prototypes of the CAFRAD radar and they have been selected to be used in the I-Class Frigates and TF-2000 class frigates of the Turkish Navy. No product developed by Turkish industry is immediately commissioned into the Turkish Armed Forces hence the gap between development and deployment. TAF wants several years of testing before allowing any system to be used by it. The CAFRAD systems were more recently tested in South Africa by the Turkish Navy.

    Turkey has invested billions into Radar development and today they export and sub-contract to companies like THALES. Turkey’s biggest success is the GaN power amplifier MMICs (one of the critical blocks of those T/R modules). ASELSAN and Bilkent University jointly established a GaN foundry named AB-MikroNano in December 2014 responsible for mass production of GaN dies. These GaN based T/R modules will also be used in Turkey’s airborne AESA radar for the TF-X.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2154986
    Bayar
    Participant

    UPDATE:

    Janes confirms purchase negotiations: http://www.janes.com/article/68205/turkey-turns-to-russia-for-s-400-purchase

    Turkish Minister of Defence says the S-400’s would not be integrated with NATO’s Air Defence Systems and its S-400’s will not use NATO databases. He add’s “Turkey can live with this” as they want an independent indigenous layered Air Defence system to run independently of and in parallel to Turkey’s NATO systems: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-s-400-missile-systems-most-possible-to-purchase-in-negotiations-turkish-defense-minister.aspx?pageID=238&nID=110039&NewsCatID=345

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2155428
    Bayar
    Participant

    Russia might do limited tech-transfer on a system like Antey 2500 which is not deemed important and to some extend obsolete. But the S-400 is another story, it has just been cleared for export and is the new backbone of Russian SAM systems. Neither China and probably also not India would get a tech-transfer deal, hence I see no chances for Turkey getting one. Furthermore, stay realistic, the S-400 is a highly sophisticated system, which radar element would Turkey want to replace? The Big Bird radar is called a battle management radar because of its high sophistication based on more than three decades of experience from its first version.
    With a system like Antey 2500 this might be possible for a country with no experience or history on long range radars because they could take advantage of new technologies like a AESA aperture, but not with a system that went operational with the worlds best SAM designing country just 10 years ago.

    – Turkey rejected the offer to co-develop the Antey 2500 with Russia back in 2013.
    – Russia has developed the 5R6M “Triumfator-M.” (aka S-500). It uses more sophisticated technology over the S-400. Thus, Russia will export the S-400.
    – Turkey has been working on PESA and AESA Aperture radars for some time now. ASELSAN has achieved 600km range with its AESA EIRS Long Range Radar.
    – Ukraine and Turkey are also working on a Passive Radar system to be used for Air Defence Purposes.
    – Turkey also has a ship-based Long Range Multi Function Active Phased Array Radar similar to the AN/SPY-1 dubbed the CAFRAD. See http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2015-news/may-2015-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/2728-idef-2015-aselsan-cafrad-multifunction-phased-array-radar-system-nearly-completed.html
    http://blogs.plymouth.ac.uk/dcss/2015/05/24/aselsan-nears-completion-of-cafrad-a-new-multifunction-phased-array-radar-system-2/

    – Turkey will use its own radar infrastructure that it has developed for its air defence systems with any long-range air defence system it procures/develops.

    Ukraine and Turkey look to radar system collaboration
    http://www.janes.com/article/59478/ukraine-and-turkey-look-to-radar-system-collaboration
    Charles Forrester, London – IHS Jane’s Defence Industry
    13 April 2016

    Ukraine’s national defence firm UkrOboronProm and Turkey’s Havelsan have signed an agreement to jointly develop and produce radar equipment, it was announced on 11 April.

    According to a statement by Havelsan, the two countries are looking at collaborating on Turkey’s PASIS passive surveillance system, which is aimed at providing coverage of sea and air targets at ranges of up to 600 km. Under the agreement, Havelsan is to work on the programme’s software systems. The two organisations are also looking to expand collaboration in the aviation and space sectors.

    The programme will allow Turkey to leverage Ukraine’s significant experience in radar and electronic warfare systems, in which the country has been developing significant capabilities through domestic research and development, and through offsets incurred through major equipment procurement programmes.

    UKRINMASH WILLCOOPERATE WITH TURKISH HAVELSAN IN PRODUCTION OF PASSIVE RADARS
    12.10.2016
    http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/media/ukrinmash-spivpratsyuvatyme-z-turetskoyu-havelsan-u-vyrobnytstvi-pasyvnoyi-radiolokatsijnoyi-stantsiyi.html

    UKROBORONPROM (UOP) State company “Ukrinmash” and Turkish company Havelsan Hava Elektronik Sanayi signed cooperation agreement on passive radar production on facilities of UOP enterprises. The agreement was signed in the framework of international exhibition “Arms and Security 2016”, held in Kyiv.

    Taner Düvenci – Deputy Chairman of Havelsan Board of Directors – from the Turkish side and Serhiy Slyusarenko – the head of “Ukrinmash” – from Ukrainian side signed the agreement.

    “Today, the agreement – providing cooperation of countries in the field of defence – was for the first time signed between Ukraine and Turkey. Cooperation with Turkey allows not only receiving a more advanced product, but also opens up new markets, in particular – NATO countries”- said “Ukrinmash” Director General Serhiy Slyusarenko.

    According to him, due to successful preparatory work , commercial agreement was signed during the exhibition. Cooperation memorandum between Havelsan and “Ukrinmash” was signed in April.

    The international exhibition “Arms and Security” will run October 11-14. UOP enterprises will represent the best developments of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2155535
    Bayar
    Participant

    Your memory doesn’t serve you well this time, I think..

    Turkey always wanted to get S-400, but Russia offered only S-300 derivatives. On many different levels (both military and political) message to Russia was “enter the bid with S-400, and the deal will be yours” but Russia didn’t want to sell S-400..

    That deal did go to Chinese HQ-9, so its quite retarded for some commenters to say “Turkey won’t buy non-NATO equipment”. That deal was broken because of delays, and Chinese didn’t provide the technology transfer that was agreed upon in time… Turkey even waited for an additional year to Chinese side to honor their part of the agreement bofore cancelling it. That had nothing at all to do with NATO, nothing. If anyone thinks otherwise; keep dreaming, you are wrong.

    There are already Turkish-built medium range SAM prototypes live shooting at the targets today… Given a decade, that technology and knowhow can easily extend missile range to some 100km range and produce a functional domestic Long-range SAM system… If Chinese are reluctant to share technology, and share it right now, then there is simply no need for such an agreement..

    Same applies to other participants; There is no point in buying a PAC-3 from US, for example. It won’t enter into active service in 4-5 years even if deal is made today, and T-LORAMIDS project will fruit at least something comperable in 10.

    The situation is entirely different with S-400. Firstly, Russia is now willing to sell the it for a change… Secondly, Turkey certainly doesn’t have the know-how to produce something comperable to it in foreseeable future. So if S-400 enters into service in 5 years, it won’t be rendered obsolete or unnecessary in another 5 years into service…

    Set a two-stage agreement; Turkey buys 12 (as originally intended) S-400 systems without technology transfer. Then Turkey gets Russian assistance for producing something comperable to 9M96 missile for free and produce it as part of a domestic system… Maybe even full tech tranfer for legacy missiles like 5V55U or 9M82 for Roketsan to play with… Its a quite win-win for both sides…

    If you read the official announcement from above Turkey and Russia were going to work on an advanced co-developed version Antey 2500 targeted for NATO countries. The platform would use ASELSAN Radars etc and easily be integrated into NATO. However, after Turkey signed the Strategic Agreement with Russia, it opted for the S-400 under similar terms.

    What people fail to realise is that this won’t be the first time Turkey would have co-developed a product with a non-NATO member State.

    Turkey and China have co-operated under Project J for the development of Short and Medium Range Ballistic Missiles.

    Turkey and Russia have also developed Low Altitude Air Defence systems in the past.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2155932
    Bayar
    Participant

    REUTERS
    WORLD NEWS | Wed Feb 22, 2017 | 4:15am EST
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-missiles-idUSKBN1610UR?il=0

    Turkey defense talks with Russia on S400 missiles have progressed, minister says
    Talks between Turkey and Russia for Ankara to procure S400 missiles for a domestic air defense system have “progressed significantly”, Turkey’s Defence Minister Fikri Isik, said on Wednesday.

    Isik also said that Turkey’s preference was to originally buy a NATO system but that wasn’t possible. He was speaking in an interview with broadcaster NTV.

    (Reporting by Tuvan Gumrukcu; Writing by David Dolan; Editing by Humeyra Pamuk)

    Reuters confirms Turkey’s S-400 Contract negotiations

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2156170
    Bayar
    Participant

    SOME BACKGROUND TO THE RUSSIA-TURKEY S-400 DEAL FROM OFFICIAL FIRST HAND SOURCES.

    It is evident that this deal was in the making for several years now.

    20 MAY 2013
    Joint Russian-Turkish air-defence system
    http://rostec.ru/en/news/4516471

    Rosoboronexport to offer Turkey joint production of Antey-2500 based weapon

    Rosoboronexport announced recently the development of a long-range air defense complex based on S-300 surface-to-air missile systems to be produced jointly with Turkey.

    Turkey launched a tender for the purchase of long-range air defense systems long ago but no winner is zeroed in yet.

    Russia is ready to offer as part of the tender a joint Russian-Turkish product based on the Antey-2500 system [the export version of the S-300 system]. For example, to mount the air defense system on the Turkish chassis,” Rosoboronexport head, Sergei Ladygin said at the weapons exhibition at Lima, Peru.

    Rosoboronexport has also proposed join efforts with Turkey to promote their air defense system on the markets of third countries, the statement added.

    The advanced version of the S-300 missile system, called S-300PMU1, has a range of over 150 kilometers (over 100 miles) and can intercept ballistic missiles and aircraft at low and high altitudes, making it effective in warding off air strikes.

    05 MAY 2015
    Rosoboronexport to intensify cooperation with Turkey
    http://rostec.ru/en/news/4516446

    Will be presented most demand military equipment models in that region

    At the International Defense Industry Exhibition, IDEF 2015, to be held from 5 to 8 May in Istanbul (Turkey), Rosoboronexport, part of the Rostec State Corporation, expects to hold a series of talks aimed at intensifying military-technical cooperation with Turkey and other states in the region.

    “Currently, in the interests of Turkey, we provide aftersales support for Mi-17 military transport helicopters and supply spare parts and accessories for Russian-made military equipment. So far, these are the main items of our cooperation, but we are actively working to expand arms deliveries to Turkey. Scientific and technological cooperation with Turkey’s defense industry is another important area. In fact, this is the future of our relationship in the defense sector,” said Anatoly Aksenov, head of Rosoboronexport’s delegation.

    The most promising areas of technological cooperation with Turkey include joint development projects related to short-range SAM systems, armored vehicles, tactical digital communications assets, orbital space systems, as well as a variety of naval equipment and weapons.

    In view of recent armed conflicts, Rosoboronexport will hold presentations of the military equipment models that are in most demand in the region.

    This encompasses approximately 20 models, including the Yak-130 combat trainer, Ka-226T light multipurpose helicopter, Mi-26T2 heavy transport helicopter, Mi-28NE attack helicopter, Ka-52 attack/scout helicopter, Be-200 amphibious aircraft, ADMS Antey-2500, Tor-M2E and Buk-M2E SAM systems, upgraded T-90S MBT, Terminator tank support fighting vehicle, and TOS-1A heavy flamethrower system. At to naval equipment, Gepard 3.9 frigate, Amur-1650 submarine, as well as Mirazh and Mangust patrol boats will most likely arouse interest among foreign delegations at the exhibition.

    In addition, Rosoboronexport will offer programs to upgrade previously supplied Russian equipment.
    Russia has been taking part in IDEF since 1995. Over 50 delegations from 17 countries visited Rosoboronexport’s stand in 2013, suggesting keen interest in Russian arms in the region.

    The Russian-Turkish military-technical cooperation dates back to March 16, 1921 when the Treaty of Friendship and Brotherhood was signed between Soviet Russia and Turkey. Upon its conclusion, Russia began providing financial and military-technical aid to the Turkish Government. Turkey’s accession to NATO did not become an obstacle to further development of ties with Russia. As a result, Russian BTR-80 APCs, Mi-17 helicopters, anti-tank missile systems, and a variety of small arms are in service with the Turkish Armed Forces.

    08 MAY 2015
    Russia and Turkey have tested a jointly produced air defense system
    The short-range system is based on Russia’s Igla system
    http://rostec.ru/en/news/4516471

    Russia and Turkey have tested a jointly produced short-range air defense system, as reported by Anatoly Aksenov, head of the Rosoboronexport delegation to the arms exhibition IDEF-2015. The project was developed by integrating Russia’s Igla system with a Turkish combat platform.

    The portable anti-aircraft missile system IGLA was designed to destroy tactical aircraft, helicopters, and small targets such as cruise missiles. Igla is used by Russian and CIS armed forces and has been exported to more than 30 countries. The modern Igla-S modification has a number of technical improvements, including the ability to fire on drone, and has been in use since 2002.

    “We integrated our short-range combat system with the platform of a Turkish company, and it has proven its capabilities. The Russian name of the system is Igla. The project is ready and has been tested. Now issues related to production are being discussed with customers,” said Anatoly Aksenov.

    According to him, if Turkey wants to equip these systems with its own rockets, rather than Russian ones, this will not be a difficult task. This issue concerns the competence of the Turkish side, said the Rosoboronexport representative.

    The head of the Russian delegation also added that the company has offers to Turkey to install the Russian combat system on Turkish ships.

    “We have been cooperating in the field of small amphibious hovercraft, as well as the integration of Russian-made weapons systems into Turkish offshore platforms,” he said.

    It was reported earlier that Rosoboronexport reached several agreements with Turkish companies at IDEF-2015. According to Anatoly Aksenov, these projects relate to naval forces. Also, during the exhibition, the Turkish military expressed interest in air defense systems, such as the long-range Antei-2500 system.

    The above cooperation agreements between Turkey and Rosoboronexport was suspended when a Russian Jet was shot down by Turkey.

    However, after President Erdogan’s visit to St Petersburg immediately after the coup attempt Turkey and Russia signed a “Strategic Partnership” Agreement. As part of this agreement Russia and Turkey agreed to co-develop military technology.

    Turkey and Russia also amended their initial plans to develop a new Air Defence System based on the Antey 2500 to a new derivative of the S-400 using NATO standard Radars developed by ASELSAN.

    Turkish Chief of the General Staff being received by Russian counterpart in Moscow

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2156255
    Bayar
    Participant

    Let’s see what the new “america first” administration in Washington says if anything would come of these rumors.

    Nothing will come of it as NATO member Greece already operates the S-300PMU (which was originally purchased by the Republic of Cyprus).

    Turkey also already has 2, S-300PMU batteries acquired from Belarus which it uses at its Anatolia Eagle EW Test Range regularly used by NATO Air forces.

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2156270
    Bayar
    Participant

    Perhaps a Turkish S-400 would have ‘tweaks’ to disable it from shooting at Russian aircraft 😀

    Perhaps this may have been correct if the Turks were using Russian Radars and electronics. The Turks are only interested in the missiles and launcher technology. They have made it clear that they will use the ASELSAN HIRS Long Range Radar and support systems.

    The Turks are developing a layered air-defence system using mainly indigenous systems such as the HISAR family of Air Defence systems. The long-range air defence missile systems will only be foreign. Eventually the long range systems will also be replaced with Turkish produced systems (after technology transfer).

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]251480[/ATTACH]

    Turkish Minister of Defence attending the testing of the Roketsan HISAR-O Medium Altitude Air Defence System

    in reply to: Turkey-Russia negotiating terms of S-400 Triumf sale #2157205
    Bayar
    Participant

    Nato “sought to overthrow” Erdogan?!
    Thats news!

    Erdogan has purged every single Officer in its military the day after the coup attempt that had any ties to NATO. He immediately then apologised to Russia and subsequently met Mr. Putin at St Petersburg, signing a strategic partnership agreement. This only indicates that Erdogan believed NATO to be behind the attempt.

Viewing 15 posts - 316 through 330 (of 363 total)