I would have thought that Turkey should invest in a nice flexible UCAV to be flown off these ships instead of resurrecting a zombie impractical VTOL jet from the 1980s.
Improve the air defence of the ship with Russian multi layered AD.
Implement Rail Gun and Directed Energy Weapons on the platform
Have various helicopters for the usual tasks.
And then a load of Long Range UCAVs for the deep strike / recon / elint role
far more 21st century.
Turkey has programs for all of the above:
TF-2000 class AAW Destroyers have:
The HISAR-A, O and U multi layered Air Defence
An ASELSAN AESA Long range radar
Aselsan Railgun Tufan
Baykar TB2 and TAI are working on a Jet powered UCAV for SEAD missions.
TAI has 2 attack helicopter programs: T-129 and T-130
TAI also has a 10 Ton Utility helicopter program of its own.
Majority of these programs have been discussed on this site under the Turkish Aerospace thread
Even at a third of material and labour cost, it would still be a colossal sum considering the intended volumes. For an aircraft needing to be developed practically from the ground up, to be delivered at a distant point in the future, and carrying oodles of technical risk.
Turkey was going to pay $120 million per F-35B (For 32 airframes). Thats, $3.8 billion there excluding weapons systems and training.
It’ll need to be helicopter carriers in that case. A VSTOL fighter will likely take over 15 years to develop, and having Yak-141 design documents at hand, will only be of a marginal utility.
And given the very limited production run, the costs will be staggering. Just to put that in perspective, a USAF study estimated that it would cost over $10 bn to restart the F-22 production – an aircraft that’s been out-of-production for just over 5 years, with many experienced production workers still around, and who’s tooling was careful preserved for this very eventuality.
Materials and labor costs in Russia and Turkey cannot be compared with material and labor costs in the US.
It will not be ready for years after the other ship i.e. the one planned for 2029.
5 years huh? Like I said, you clearly don’t realize what kind of work would be required to take the aircraft from paper to production. And the Yak-141 exists only on paper at this point. The components that went into the Yak prototypes, are all out of production. The RD-41 & R-79, in particular, aren’t to be found in NPO Saturn’s catalogues, even if their blueprints have been archived somewhere.
And integrated their modern analogues onto the aircraft (we’re not talking minor stuff like MFDs, HMDs & MCs) will require a total redesign of the aircraft.
I was obviously referring to the 300 m vessel, not the Juan Carlos-derived ships. And I said CATOBAR not STOVL.
The 300m CV will most definitely use a naval variant of the TF-X.
As for the LHD’s Turkey will need alternatives to the F-35B in the event that an arms embargo is imposed by the US. Even then Turkey can use them as Helicopter carrriers with its T-129’s until it acquires its VTOL aircraft.
@Gigafactory The figure is actually $7.4 billion/yr now (I stated $5 billion). Turkey increased Defence spending by 50% last year.
https://www.army-technology.com/news/report-turkish-defence-spending-reach-15-8bn-2023/
https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkey-s-defence-budget-raised-by-nearly-50-percent-11140
“The director of the Russian state-owned defense company Rostec for International Co-operation, Viktor Kladov, in his statements from Antalya at the Eurasia Airshow told Ria Novosti that Russia can supply engines for the fighter that Turkey plans to build and announced that they some days of Turkish experts will visit Russia, as Turkey is “particularly interested in co-production of aircraft and helicopters”. According to Defense News invoking Turkish officials responsible for military supplies.”
Turkish and Russian officials are holding high level meetings to discuss joint development of combat aircraft and helicopters.
Without wanting to be condescending, I don’t think you have any idea how complex this little ‘update’ would actually be, given that the flying platform never actually went into production, putting the components of the aircraft beyond reach 30 years later. Practically everything on the aircraft will need to independently acquired or developed.
New vectoring turbofan engine, new lift jets, different transmission, different air frame materials, different avionics. All resulting in different weight distribution, different handling, different FBW… basically what you have is new aircraft that just happens to be unnecessarily confined by the 1980s design choices of a 1980s Soviet OKB.
The A 129 customization to develop the TA 129 has parallels in the the Israeli F-16I development. What you’re describing is more akin to the development of the Japanese F-2, only much much more complex since its a VSTOL aircraft. The idea that it could be delivered in a time-frame corresponding to the planned Turkish LHA/carrier is a nonstarter.
It would be a lot simpler & cheaper to just order the vessel in a CATOBAR configuration and develop the T-FX in a naval variant, while buying a fighter off-the-shelf in the interim. Or maybe collaborating with Russia on a naval Su-57.
Ofcourse the Yak-141 derivative would not be ready when TCG Anadolu is delivered in 2019.
It would take at the least 5 years to enter service. It would be ready however for the commissioning of TCG Trakya. But should the US impose an arms embargo on the F-35B this route is inevitable for Turkey.
As for redesigning the LHD/Light Carriers for STOL aircraft- this is not possible as Turkey wants these vessels to focus on amphibious role.
The 300m vessel being designed however will be an aircraft carrier proper…
P.S. Given the extent of relations with the UK of late I wouldnt discount a program to develop a new Harrier derivative with the UK either…
The JF-17 carrying the Aselpod is carrying it on the centerline. So structural mods planned to the Block I and Block II for a dedicated station under starboard the air intake? Not a very straightforward task, but would seem necessary since a centerline station for a LDP is a waste, especially for jets that are endurance constrained.
The ASELPOD can also be wing mounted…it was d signed to have the same drag as a MK-82
“Little R&D”?! To develop a STVOL strike fighter?!!!
The Yakovlev Yak-141 made its maiden flight in 1989. That is, it was a flying platform. Turkey would not be developing a VTOL aircraft from scratch but merely updating an existing aircraft design to modern times. Just like the TAI T-129 Attack Helicopter program. Turkey took the Agusta A129 Mangusta and transformed it into a modern platform. Turkish companies already have extremely mature programs for AESA radars, Mission Computers, Modern Avionics etc. TAI Hurkus, TAI HurJet, TAI TF-X programs are all complimentary to this effort.
“TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation Engine”?!! Rolls Royce cooperating with Rostec and Yak?!!
The “TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation” is a Turkish Corporation incorporated under the laws of the Republic of Turkey. Its sole purpose is to develop and produces turbo-fan engines for Turkish Aircraft programs such as the TF-X, TAI HurJet. It will also produce engines for Turkish Airlines aircraft purchased from Boeing and Airbus.
KALE Group of Turkey owns 51% of this corporation whilst Rolls-Royce of the United Kingdom has a 49% share. The company is modeled around the Joint Venture between IHI Corporation of Japan and GE of the USA.
Technology developed by TAEC will be subject to Turkish Export controls not UK Export Controls. Rolls-Royce will provide 400 of its Engineers to TAEC for the co-development effort.
When Turkey issued the tender for co-development of Turbo-fan engines for its combat aircraft programs only 3 countries satisfied the requirements of full ToT. They were EuroJet, Rolls-Royce and Rostec of Russia. Rolls-Royce was selected by the Turkish Government because they had obtained Export approval from the British Government and guaranteed full ToT.
Turkey is already look to use TAEC Turbo-fan engines on the new Heavy lift aircraft dubbed An-188 by Antanov of Ukraine.
If you want to know how extensive the Partnership with British companies are just look at the below Export Approval….




Well..with Erdogan continue making market losing confidence on future Turkey good economic management..will see how all of this can be financed.
One thing on hearing producing new SVTOL fighter from China that can pay the bill. Now this going to be paid by USD 20 bio that not existed right now..and all depends to Turkish future economic trend that continue being put in doubt by Erdogan anti-market management..
Well..get rid Erdogan first from Turkey management..bring back market confidence on Turkey..then potential this can happen..
Turkey has been putting aside $5 billion for the past 10 yearly budgets to fund the F-35 acquisition. There is over $50 billion in this fund now. The same has been allocated for the U-214 submarine program etc. That is Turkey spreads out the costs of large programs over a period of 10 years. $5 billion per year is peanuts for Turkey. They spent $20 billion alone on Syrian refugees! Turkey is not some Arabian desert country. Turkey is an industrialised G20 member State.
All this whoo ha about the Turkish economy will discipate after the Turkish elections…we see a decline in the Lira at every Turkish election and then it stabalizes once the political uncertainty is resolved. In any event $20 – $30 billion projects are not projects that a G20 member State with a GDP of $1.8 Trillion (PPP) cannot finance.
All these major programs are also controlled by the Turkish Presidency (with a panel of senior military advisors). This means that parliamentary politics have very minimal role in their timelines.
Turkish arms exports such as the 30 T-129 Attack helicopter sale to Pakistan or the MILGEM corvette sales also fund these programs.
ok so who will pay for its development? Russia probably won’t, they’re interested in the Su-57K, unless Turkey pays most of reviving a Yak-141.
Also why would you want to go from a 5th gen aircraft to a 4th gen?And do you really want to leave the US-NATO alliance for Russia? Sure, it means Incirlik might be gone.. but it also means it makes it much easier for NATO to side with Greece during a dispute. Also supporting the Kurds.
Russia?.. they support Syria, your enemy.
Its all up to the snobby US Congressman. If they want to seek to dictate to Turkey what it can and cant buy or have double standards towards it- Turkey can show them that there are alternative options in this world.
Turkey is a Level 3 Partner in the JSF consortium. Turkey is not an off-the-shelf purchaser of the F-35. Turkey has also paid for its aircraft. If the US suddenly thinks it can use the program to blackmail Turkey into abandoning the S-400 acquisition it will soon realise that the Turks are not Arabs and that they would reply with very radical moves.
As for who will pay for the development- obviously Turkey. They already have a spare $20 billion from the F-35 program and $60 billion worth of arms programs in the pipeline. The development costs will also not be a great deal as the VTOL aircraft will use sub-systems developed for the TF-X program.
Russia also already has plans for a new VTOL aircraft…
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/july-20…
With a little R&D, an ASELSAN AESA radar and a TAEC Aircraft Engine Industry Corporation Engine I am pretty sure Turkey can field a YAK-141 based VTOL aircraft suitable for use on its LHD’s. It does not need to be a 5th Gen aircraft. 4.5 Gen is sufficient for Turkey.
With Turkey’s stand-off missiles such as the SOM-B1 the 4.5 gen VTOL aircraft can still be very useful.
… (Sensored)
Really the Yack?! In 2030’s!
One minute… Let me get the Nieuport Blueprints… You never know.
Keyword- derivative of the YAK-141.
You would recall the F-35B also uses technology that Lockheed Martin had obtained from Yakolev
Regardless of any other consideration fielding a 300+ mtrs CV in the mediterranean seems me a total overkill, let’s imagine in the Black sea.
It wont be fielded in the Black Sea or Mediterranean Sea.
It will be primarily in the Indian Ocean with logistical support from the Turkish bases in Somalia and Sudan.