Is that round protrusion under the rear end of the plane a radar?
If thats for rear end coverage, guess that would be a sub-optimal design.
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Nice pic / catch.
Those black round shapes at the tail end and under the nose of the airplane are antennas for the ESM system. Similarly, black wingtips are also part of the same system. Boeing’s solution for 360degree coverage is different than the other companies in the AEW business. T shape Radom at the top contains side looking and rear/front looking T/R modules. It is a very simple and aerodynamically efficient solution. At least on the paper…
Turkish SOM( stand-off missile) has been shown at DSEi 2011 which took place in London. Flightglobal’s article about this missile:
DSEi: Turkish cruise missile design breaks cover
By Craig HoyleTurkey has performed a successful first flight test with an indigenously-developed cruise missile design, which the nation hopes could eventually be integrated with its future fleet of Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
Developed by the Defence Industries Research and Development Institute, or Tubitak Sage, the modular stand-off missile (SOM) design was released by a McDonnell Douglas F-4E 2020 strike aircraft on 9 August.
“The missile hit its target with a high accuracy by covering a distance of over 100nm [185km],” Tubitak Sage said.
All images © Tubitak Sage
The institute is displaying a full-scale model of the weapon at the Defence & Security Equipment International (DSEi) exhibition in London, UK.
In addition to the recent test involving the F-4E Phantom, Tubitak Sage is also currently working on the integration of the SOM design with the Lockheed F-16 Block 40 fighter for the Turkish air force.
Installation trials have already been performed (below), with the remaining work expected to conclude later this year. A production order is anticipated later, with this to potentially prompt interest from export customers, the institute said.
Material released by Tubitak Sage describes the SOM as having a release weight of 600kg (1,300lb), including a high-explosive warhead weighing 230kg.
Intended targets for the turbojet-powered design are cited as including command and control facilities, surface-to-air missile sites, parked aircraft and surface ships.
Guidance is provided by using inertial navigation system/global positioning satellite equipment and a terrain-referenced navigation system, with the use of pre-programmed waypoints to avoid air defence assets.
During its terminal attack phase, the weapon’s intended target is verified by using an imaging infrared seeker. Its accuracy is described as being “within a few metres”.
The following screenshot is taken from MSI Magazine which is a defense publication in Turkey. It shows a F-4E/2020 loaded with SOMs taxing before live firing test or an exercise…
Interesting information on these new Turkish weapons.
Any other new additions planned to integration? Do they have some type of JSOW equivalent?
I think Turkish Air Force topic in this forum has some info about the new types of precision weapons. The most recent one is called SOM( stand off missile). It has been in the development phase since 2006 and completed some flight test recently. This weapon will be operational with F-4E2020s before the end of 2011. Integration efforts will start on F-16s during 2012. There are plans that in the future F-35s will be integrated with these new weapon systems. You can find some brochures/videos and the pictures of SoM and the other weapon systems here:
http://www.sage.tubitak.gov.tr/THG2011_BasinAciklama/BasinAciklama_eng.htm
Fascinating! I wasn’t aware of this winged kit. I presume the four wing hardpoints are the locations these bombs are carried?
The kinda remind me of a scaled-up Small-Diameter Bomb (is there a JDAM-ER with wings?)
F-4Es can carry them in stations 1/2 and 8/9. In fact, even RF-4Es are now capable of carring these bombs after the ISIK upgrade.
AFAIK, JDAM-ER has wings to extend the range. The design and certification tests on F/A-18s have been performed in Australia with the help of Boeing.
Of course it prompts another question – why would the Turks declare a ‘Turkish Special Mission Day’, and ground all the coalition aircraft at Incirlik, except to enter the no-fly zone with impunity?
Our understanding at the time was that the Turks had Saddam’s blessing to enter northern Iraq, and kill as many Kurds as possible, as they were a common problem to both nations.
Do you know PKK or have you heard about them? Who are they for you? Some innocent villagers, peacefully living in N. Iraq soils? FYI, PKK is recognized as a “terrorist” organization by the USA and EU. You need to read and learn before posting Turks are kiling Kurds nonsense.
You learn something new every day.
So do the Turks have smaller 1000 or perhaps 500-lb. variants of this HGK bomb planned? Do the F-16’s or F-4’s have the capability to target multiple things at once or is it one bomb for one target at a time?
Yes, there are different versions of HGK kit. Original HGK( means precision guidance kit) uses 2000lb Mk-84 bombs. The most recent development is the addition of wings to HGK kit to extend the range. The wing kit uses Mk-82/83class bombs instead of Mk-84. According to information released by TUBITAK-SAGE, the wing gives 60nm range when it is released from 30K feet. You can see the retractable wing and HGK adapted to Mk-82 below. It is named as KGK(means winged guidance kit).
Yes to your second question as well. These kits( HGK or KGK) can be programmed to hit different targets in different locations. For example, F-4E2020 can carry up to four KGK and hit multiple targets in one sortie. Each KGK can be aimed to a different target. You can either program and up load target coordinates on the gorund, or during the flight. F-4E’s SAR radar can determine ground targets in all weather( and target coordinates) and pass them into KGK and HGK.
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I thought all JDAM’s had four moving control surfaces (i.e. the four fins on the rear of the bomb)…is one of them fixed on JDAM’s?
Yes, one of the tail fins in JDAM is fixed( not moving). You can see which tail fin is fixed if you take a closer look at some JDAM pictures. AFAIK, JDAM flies like an airplane with those three control surfaces.
So this HGK bomb…I’ve heard of it before. You say it’s similar to the GBU-31, but different in some ways. Does this include range or other parameters or are they more aesthetic differences?
Are the F-16’s and F-4’s cleared to use the bomb on the four heavy underwing pylons each jet has or perhaps a maximum of two per airplane?
HGK has four moving control surfaces compare to JDAM’s three moving control surfaces in the tail. HGK uses a different guidance logic and algorithms but from outside both kits look similar. Occording to the engineers who developed HKG, this kit has very low CEP values and high angles of attack properties because of its very tight INS and four moving control surfaces.
There are some differences between AH-1 and T129/A129 gun turrets. Both uses the same gun, M197 but mounted on different turrets. Italians( and General Dynamics) developed TM 197B turret specifically for A129. TM 197B turret uses an additional damper to reduce the recoil energy which is created during firing. It reduces the vibration and stress on the structure during firing. In fact, Italian Army has been using Helitow optical sight system and 20mm gun turret for at least 10-12 years without a problem. Mounting E/O sensors and gun on the same structure is an engineering challenge. If this forum knows and thinks about possible integration problems, Agusta and TAI engineers thought and found solutions to those possible problems. TM197 and AselFLIR-300 are mated with specially designed nose structure to reduce the effect of gun vibration and shocks.
In addition to Orko’s comments about T129, there are a few things I can add. There are two main differences between Italian and Turkish versions. Turkish version uses 1366shp CTS800 turboshafts whereas Italian version uses 1000shp GEM engines. The new engines increases high-hot performance of T129 compare to A129 as well as gives increased MTOW and weapon pay load capability. T129 will be certified to carry 1200kg payload under the wing stations( each station is certified to 300kg). The second major difference is in the avionics. Turkish version will be installed new generation mission computers and avionics (AselFLIR300, MFDs, Helmet Sight System, INS/GPS, IFF, software defined radios, EW systems etc). Turkey picked Agusta’s offer because Turkey was given permission to use nationally developed mission computers, and avionics without restriction. Bell’s AH-1Z won the first competition in 2001 but the agreement could not be signed due to US export rules which prohibit US Manufacturers to allow such a change in the mission computers.
Sahin and Swerve, regarding your doubts as to the accuracy of Al’s statements.
I have seen this myself many times. During the early 1990’s Turkish F-4s REGULARLY flew from Incirlik (usually as 2 pairs), fully bombed up. We were told they were actually armed at Incirlik, and went on to bomb targets in Northern Iraq (presumably PKK).
We always found it very peculiar that we were deployed there to enforce a UN no-fly zone, protecting the civilians in Northern Iraq, whilst a NATO ally was being given support (fuel and weapons) to be able to attack the same people!
First, early years of 1990s, Turkish F-4E were participating daily flights of NATO over N. Iraq. But the difference was TuAF was not crossing over Iraq air space but turn around and come back. Especially TuAF wanted to train with NATO Kc-135s tankers becasue TuAF did not operate a tanker aircraft in those days. Those half missions were given Turkish pilots a chance to practice AAR. Also they get used to NATO practices for joint operations, briefings etc. Secondly, TuAF’s F-4E deployments to Incirlik was not permanent but shot lived one. You said you saw F-4Es are loaded up with bombs and bombed N. Iraq. You could not be sure that those missions were about bonming N. Iraq but it could be going to Konya range for practice. I do not think that TuAF will tell you where they drop bombs. There are many closer TuAF air bases to N. Iraq for that purpose. Those days, NATO/US were acting as if they are the only one in the region ignoring Turkish warnigns. If you member, US/NATO did not tell Turkey that they are shooting down two helos close to Turkish borders where Turkish helicopters were also flying at the same time frame. That incident (shooting two friendly Blackhawks) killled 5 high ranking Turkish Officers as well. Finally, TuAF’s main targets were PKK camps and training areas in N. Iraq. What is PKK for you? Bunch of civilians in boot camps? They are responsible attacing and killing many Turkish people regardless of they are women, older or children. If some of the bombs went out of control hit an innocent, I feel sorry for them. Hey, it is an irony that the same US/NATO troops/aircrafts killed thousands of civilians in Iraq and Afganistan.
Dear Al,
I am not in a position to judge what went wrong between US and Turkish generals but Using a NATO base in a foreing country, does not give you a freedom of act or full access to everything. You must obey the rules of that country. Do you think that Turkish Red Flag participants are free of rules when they are deployed to Nellis AFB? You will see many US CITIZENS ONLY signs at the doors. I remember their deployement to Nellis was pain in the ..s. They need to get permissions from many ATCs and etc. The rules were strict but US personal was friendly. That’s what it counts.
Dear Al,
There are a few things that need to be said. First, I wonder how did you see Turkish F-4s and F-5s loaded up with bombs? None of those aircraft is based at Incirlik AFB during those times . Incirlik AFB is “very rarely” used by Turkish “fighter” aircrafts except TuAF KC-135 Tankers which are permanently based at Incirlik. Especially, F-5s with full weapon’s load can not even reach Iraq air space from Incirlik. TuAF operational jet bases are well known and can be found via Google. The main jet bases that are used to launch air raids against PKK are 7th and 8th main jet bases which are located in Malatya and Diyabakir. Both of these cities are hundreds of kms away from Incirlik. Second, NATO operation to protect N. Iraq population via no fly zone created a safe haven for terrorist groups like PKK because of the lack of authority in the region. They established camps and training grounds to launch attacks against Turkish security forces and also civilians. As I said before, no western nation would allow bad guy coming to kill innocent people from a neighboring county. Third, you mentioned that during mid 1990s a TuAF air strike killed 168 people in N. Iraq. I wonder what was the exact date of that air raid?
PKK’s main training and logistical camps are located inside N. Iraq region. These camps are far from populated areas in N. Iraq. Mostly, they are located in mountains or deep valleys. They bring their heavy weapons, mines and explosives from those camps to organize attacks inside Turkish territories. I do not think that any western nation( or any nation) would allow this to happen. Turkey has been idle for some time against PKK attacks. Turkey’s position was mostly defensive or limited to border patrol activities in recent years. Turkish Government asked N. Iraq Officials not to harbor terrorist camps on their soil but no response so far. Their response usually is “we can not control mountains etc”. PKK is training, getting ammunition, heavy weapons etc from N. Iraq markets freely. Especially after recent PKK attacks which killed 45 members of Turkish security forces in the recent months, Turkey launched air strikes, but no land forces has involved so far.
The pods in the photo are LANTIRN. ASELPOD is in prototype stage, don’t know if flight testing has begun or not.
HGK so far has been carried exclusively by F-4E 2020s.
The first prototype of AselPOD is now complete. We may expect to see the flight testing with a F-4E/2020 very soon. It has been a long wait for F-4E/2020 squadrons to have modern targeting pod. The current pod in use is 1970s generation Pave Spike pod. AselPOD will have 3rd generation FLIR, 40K laser degisnator/spoter/range finder, CCD camera, integrated IMU ( for GPS guided ammunition and SAR radar correlation). The integration of AselPOD will make F-4E/2020 a true day or night, all weather striker with the range of guided weapons currently in the inventory. The same pod will also be integrated with TurAF’s Block-40 F-16s.
TuAF F-4E/2020s use Elta EL/M-2032 radar which was selected over Norden APG-76 radar. TuAF was given a flight demostration of the EL/M and found its A/A and A/G performance satisfactory. It is a modern multi-mode pulse doppler radar that has 80 nm a/a and a/g range. It has many A/A and A/G ground modes are available in flight. It can provide high resolution SAR images from stand-off distance that matches Popeye’s performance. With the addition of Turkish JDAM into current inventory of weapons, 2020s can drop GPS/INS guided bombs using SAR mode. Ground targets can be determined day or night from stand-off distances via SAR image taken by the radar, then the location information of the targets can be fed into weapon’s computer system. EL/M-2032 radar also well liked by the crew and showed superior performance against APG-68s(pre V9 versions) in DACT.
I’m interested in finding out more about the Turkish F-4E upgrade that doesn’t involve the 2020 birds…if indeed there is one.
As for the RF-4E upgrade, I believe they are also getting a new type of camouflage…photos of the new recce birds and/or their cockpits would be awesome if anyone can find anything.
As for a great features from various upgrades, how about the one-piece wrap-around windscreen that was fitted to a handful of USAF F-4G’s and RF-4C’s towards the end of their service lives.
Additionally, the Litening targeting pod from the Hellenic PI2000 upgrade is also a great new feature.
Hello Phantom,
Turkish RF-4E upgrade program, called Isik (or Light) project, is not as extensive as F-4E/2020 program. In fact, there is no foreign company working in the project. Two local companies Aselsan and MIKES did all of the work. The program includes new Have Quick V/UHF and long range HF radios, a GPS/INS navigation system (LN100GT version produced by Aselsan), Aselsan produced CDU900 flight management system (FMS), and digital memory RWR/Chaff/Flare dispenser by MIKES. Aselsan engineers designed and developed OFP(operational flight program) for the new CDU900 unit that controls radios, navigation and RWR. There is no MFD in the cockpits currently but a single large color MFD will be installed under the TARP program ( LOROP and SAR pod project with Elbit, Israel) . In addition to the avionics, TUAF’s 1st Maintanence and Logistics Center worked on structural upgrade to extend the life of the aircraft for another 10-12 years. The project is moving according to schedule, 2 prototypes have been delivered to TuF and all remaining 16 aircraft will be delivered this year. in fact, you can see the new camouflage from the link provided above:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5Y4nWDsZYro/SgWsgiv_vhI/AAAAAAAAFeQ/JWsrPmZ8oQ0/s1600-h/123y3ps.jpg
Now regarding the Simsek project (Thunder), it involves 16 F-4Es( all non-F-4E2020s). The goal is to use the experience gained from Isik project (RF-4Es)and perform cost effective avionics upgrade for 16 F-4Es as well as structural work to keep them flying another 10-12 years. TuAF is hoping to keep 18 RF-4Es and 16 F-4Es airworthy until the first examples of F-35s enter service around 2016-2017.
The strong fleet of 50 F-4E2020s will be around at least until 2020s. The current plans for F-4E2020 involve mainly introducing new precision munitions and targeting pods. In addition to already certified Popeye, Maverick, LGB type guided weapons, TuAF’s first Turkish designed and produced INS/GPS guided bomb(some call it Turkish JDAM, since it uses JDAM type guidance kits) has been certified on F-4E2020. You can see the trial picture:
Also, Turkish defence electronics company Aselsan is developing a new targeting pod, called AselPOD for TuAF F-4E/2020s and F-16s. This pod will ready for test flights within a year or so. There are also some rumors that another Turkish developed stand-off weapon will be certified on F-4E/2020. We will wait and see if the rumors are correct.