skytheRE: Anybody served in the military before ???????
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-06-02 AT 05:54 PM (GMT)]Family history, ehh? Well, my late grandfather on my mother’s side fought with the Red Army against the Nazis. My late grandfather on my mother’s side faught with the Haganah for the liberation of Tiberias, the first city in not-yet-born Israel to fall to Jewish hands in 1948. My dad was in the Golani infantry and as such participated in the famous raid on Nukeib in 1962. In 1967 he was with the first brigade to enter the Golan Heights, the same one which took over Tel-Faher and Tel-Azizat, although he did not participate in these two infamous battles. In 1973 he was with the forces containing Egypt’s 3rd Army, and later spent some time on the western bank of the canal as well. I don’t remember what my uncle did, but at one time or another he had the gruesome job of visiting the families of fallen soldiers to inform them of their loss.
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U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: This is really disgusting …
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-06-02 AT 05:38 PM (GMT)]Once again we are in disagreement, Garry. I think this is because your opinion is more idealic and academic and mine’s practical and realistic.
> I could convert to become a jew… I can’t convert to become a
> black person or an asian person
True, but that’s outward appearance alone. You could actually find yourself suddenly different. How many Christian school buses or churches have been firebombed in France lately? How many graveyards desicrated across Europe? Ethnicity doesn’t necessarily revolve around your appearance.
>what you are suggesting is that two different ethnic groups are
>incapable of living together. It is sad that you think that.
Hardly, of course they can. But do you really think a century of hostility can be forgotten? Only in an idealic and altruistic world, not in the one we live in. The current, best and only solution is a two states solution, however romantic any other notion is.
>I assume when you say that Jews and Palestinians are seperate ethnic
>groups you mean that they have different cultures. This is not the
>same thing.
Culture, language, religion, history, and more. That is what makes two ethnics groups different. Actually, a lot less does.
>So you are suggesting that Jewish people cannot coexist with
>others… Could you say why?
Jews can coexist with others, but there will always be places and people who refuse to see Jews as part of the collective. Jews are widely accepted in the Western World today, but Arab Jews don’t always have it so easy. There was a time the opposite was correct, and that time can arrive again. Who knows? Antisemitism is not a Jewish problem, its not the Jews’ fault, much as white supremacy is not the black man’s fault.
>They didn’t distinguish between slavic people either… I wouldn’t
>base my plans for the future on anything to do with the way the
>Nazis thought about anything
Slavs weren’t on the point of being wiped out. That is why Israel is so important to world Jewry. It is the refuge should anything catastophic happen for any reason. Millions would have been saved had Israel existed during World War II. In 1990 Israel airlifted thousand of Ethiopian Jews out of Addis-Abbaba as Tigrin and Eritrean forces were converging on it. Would anyone else have saved them?
>Sounds a little like aparthied to me… don’t want to have a
>government with nonjews in it, so I assume all of the Arab labour
>that is currently used in Israel would be replaced by Jewish
>labour… or is it a case of they can work and maybe live there but
>they can have no say in anything.
Where did I say that ?!?!? You’re coming to your own misguided conclusions here. What I want is a democratic, equal right Israel which is home to Jews and non-Jews alike, much the same as I wish Jewish right respected abroad. But I do also want Israel that can be the homeland Jews never had and which they can always count on for support, no matter how dark the times are. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, yes, but not necessarily theirs exclusive.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: This is really disgusting …
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-06-02 AT 05:38 PM (GMT)]Once again we are in disagreement, Garry. I think this is because your opinion is more idealic and academic and mine’s practical and realistic.
> I could convert to become a jew… I can’t convert to become a
> black person or an asian person
True, but that’s outward appearance alone. You could actually find yourself suddenly different. How many Christian school buses or churches have been firebombed in France lately? How many graveyards desicrated across Europe? Ethnicity doesn’t necessarily revolve around your appearance.
>what you are suggesting is that two different ethnic groups are
>incapable of living together. It is sad that you think that.
Hardly, of course they can. But do you really think a century of hostility can be forgotten? Only in an idealic and altruistic world, not in the one we live in. The current, best and only solution is a two states solution, however romantic any other notion is.
>I assume when you say that Jews and Palestinians are seperate ethnic
>groups you mean that they have different cultures. This is not the
>same thing.
Culture, language, religion, history, and more. That is what makes two ethnics groups different. Actually, a lot less does.
>So you are suggesting that Jewish people cannot coexist with
>others… Could you say why?
Jews can coexist with others, but there will always be places and people who refuse to see Jews as part of the collective. Jews are widely accepted in the Western World today, but Arab Jews don’t always have it so easy. There was a time the opposite was correct, and that time can arrive again. Who knows? Antisemitism is not a Jewish problem, its not the Jews’ fault, much as white supremacy is not the black man’s fault.
>They didn’t distinguish between slavic people either… I wouldn’t
>base my plans for the future on anything to do with the way the
>Nazis thought about anything
Slavs weren’t on the point of being wiped out. That is why Israel is so important to world Jewry. It is the refuge should anything catastophic happen for any reason. Millions would have been saved had Israel existed during World War II. In 1990 Israel airlifted thousand of Ethiopian Jews out of Addis-Abbaba as Tigrin and Eritrean forces were converging on it. Would anyone else have saved them?
>Sounds a little like aparthied to me… don’t want to have a
>government with nonjews in it, so I assume all of the Arab labour
>that is currently used in Israel would be replaced by Jewish
>labour… or is it a case of they can work and maybe live there but
>they can have no say in anything.
Where did I say that ?!?!? You’re coming to your own misguided conclusions here. What I want is a democratic, equal right Israel which is home to Jews and non-Jews alike, much the same as I wish Jewish right respected abroad. But I do also want Israel that can be the homeland Jews never had and which they can always count on for support, no matter how dark the times are. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, yes, but not necessarily theirs exclusive.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: This is really disgusting …
>It is a shame that this person seems to think that killing
>civilians is a better option than creating a country where
>both Israelis and arabs can get along and religion has no
>part in government… but no there must be an Arab country
>and a Jewish country… segregation is the only answer they
>see.
I disagree, Garry. You obviously see Judaism as nothing more than a religion, one among many that can democratically coexist with all others. But it’s not, and history has shown that again and again.
After emancipation in Europe during the last 200 years, Jews thought they would be welcome in their host nations. Numerous incidents, the Dreyfous Affair being the best known, proved otherwise. And the Holocaust was the final verdict – the Nazis did not distinguish between Belgian, Polish, Russian, Greek or Tunisian Jews.
Judaism is more than a religion, it is also a nationality. Jews and Palestinians are two ethnic groups, each with its own valid claim for self determination. A two states solution is the only one that can deliver the aspirations of both people. A binational state is a nice, wellmeaning but completely naive solution – it would just turn into another Arab state where the Jews are once again at the mercy of their masters.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: This is really disgusting …
>It is a shame that this person seems to think that killing
>civilians is a better option than creating a country where
>both Israelis and arabs can get along and religion has no
>part in government… but no there must be an Arab country
>and a Jewish country… segregation is the only answer they
>see.
I disagree, Garry. You obviously see Judaism as nothing more than a religion, one among many that can democratically coexist with all others. But it’s not, and history has shown that again and again.
After emancipation in Europe during the last 200 years, Jews thought they would be welcome in their host nations. Numerous incidents, the Dreyfous Affair being the best known, proved otherwise. And the Holocaust was the final verdict – the Nazis did not distinguish between Belgian, Polish, Russian, Greek or Tunisian Jews.
Judaism is more than a religion, it is also a nationality. Jews and Palestinians are two ethnic groups, each with its own valid claim for self determination. A two states solution is the only one that can deliver the aspirations of both people. A binational state is a nice, wellmeaning but completely naive solution – it would just turn into another Arab state where the Jews are once again at the mercy of their masters.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Anybody served in the military before ???????
Yep, that’s me, reserve Lieutenant Skythe. Runs in the family, you know. My dad was an infantry officer, my sister an intelligence officer and my brother hopes to become a naval officer when he’s drafted in about a year.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Anybody served in the military before ???????
Yep, that’s me, reserve Lieutenant Skythe. Runs in the family, you know. My dad was an infantry officer, my sister an intelligence officer and my brother hopes to become a naval officer when he’s drafted in about a year.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Anybody served in the military before ???????
I am a former IDF Signals Officer. I had a fascinating time in the military, it really taught me a great deal. I got to visit lots of interesting places, met lots of interesting people, a very positive experience altogether.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Anybody served in the military before ???????
I am a former IDF Signals Officer. I had a fascinating time in the military, it really taught me a great deal. I got to visit lots of interesting places, met lots of interesting people, a very positive experience altogether.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Another PLO victory
You’ve figured it all out, haven’t you, Tomel? Is there a thing those evil Zionists wouldn’t do to gain the slightest advantage? we’d even kill thirty of our own, children on the way to school, entire families, wouldn’t we?
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Another PLO victory
You’ve figured it all out, haven’t you, Tomel? Is there a thing those evil Zionists wouldn’t do to gain the slightest advantage? we’d even kill thirty of our own, children on the way to school, entire families, wouldn’t we?
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Another PLO victory
“But the land of Israel exists in books and scriptures which have never been proved to be true or indeed untrue”
Actually Kev, the land of Israel is quite a historic fact. It exists well outsides the scriptures, in both archeology and in the documented history of other civilizations such as the Egyptian, Assyrian and later Greek and Roman. Among others there is Josephus’ Jewish Wars which details the last years of Jewish nationhood, until its destruction by the Roman. Or, if you’re ever in Rome, you could go and see the Titus Arch which features the treasures plundered from Herod’s Temple in Jerusalem.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: Another PLO victory
“But the land of Israel exists in books and scriptures which have never been proved to be true or indeed untrue”
Actually Kev, the land of Israel is quite a historic fact. It exists well outsides the scriptures, in both archeology and in the documented history of other civilizations such as the Egyptian, Assyrian and later Greek and Roman. Among others there is Josephus’ Jewish Wars which details the last years of Jewish nationhood, until its destruction by the Roman. Or, if you’re ever in Rome, you could go and see the Titus Arch which features the treasures plundered from Herod’s Temple in Jerusalem.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
We are well aware of those facts, including the illegality of Nazi literature all over Europe. But what do you expect? I can imagine the headlines : “Synagogue burned down in Belgium today, the Belgium government is doing close to nothing, but that’s OK because you can’t find Mein Kampf in bookstores.”
“whining on Belgium’s anti-semitism”
Why can’t those pesky Jews just shut up and take what they’re given? At least we don’t attempt to put your leaders on trial.
“as it is still legal to write or say that it was a good thing gipsy’s, the gay’s etc were also slaughtered by Hitler, but don’t say anything about the Jews “
The fact that those are legal are your shortcomings, don’t dump them on us.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
skytheRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
We are well aware of those facts, including the illegality of Nazi literature all over Europe. But what do you expect? I can imagine the headlines : “Synagogue burned down in Belgium today, the Belgium government is doing close to nothing, but that’s OK because you can’t find Mein Kampf in bookstores.”
“whining on Belgium’s anti-semitism”
Why can’t those pesky Jews just shut up and take what they’re given? At least we don’t attempt to put your leaders on trial.
“as it is still legal to write or say that it was a good thing gipsy’s, the gay’s etc were also slaughtered by Hitler, but don’t say anything about the Jews “
The fact that those are legal are your shortcomings, don’t dump them on us.
—————————————-
U.N. Representative: So, Mr. Evil –
Dr. Evil: It’s Dr. Evil, I didn’t spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called “mister,” thank you very much.
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