CarolineWHiya Flying Pencil,
Latest nice finds are some Pratt and Whitney twin wasp parts including lovely crankcase sections 🙂
Re. Cats at this site, far as I have been able to find out it was just PBY-5 variants, including PBY-5, -5A and PB2B-2. However, I’m also finding a few non-Cat parts, including a Spitfire fishtail exhaust and parts from a Bendix Upper Turret most likely from a B-24 or B-25. None of these make direct sense as there was no land based airstrip anywhere nearby and the maintenance unit was specifically a Flying Boat MU, but I’m figuring spare parts / used parts got mixed up in the post-war dumping processes. Maybe. So unfortunately it potentially widens the possibilities to any RAAF aircraft based in Darwin that had .303 machine guns. I’m trying to start up a list of those; will let you know when I get that sorted.
I’ve been wondering about the Cats and .30 cal guns. Far as I understand (which admittedly isn’t much), I would’ve thought the Cats would have US AN version .30 cal guns rather than the .303. I don’t know if they were ever swapped out though?
🙂
Steel parts survive very well in salt water, but not in fresh water. This was explained and shown by my Norwegian buddy who recovered aircraft from both types.
Finding more good bits in that bay, Caroline? 🙂
PBY used .303 in the tail “tunnel” and nose mount.
Go ahead and list all the aircraft known to be there, use the sub types (PBY-4, -5, -5a, -6a, etc)
Help us narrow down possibilities.
CarolineWIt’s amazing how well they actually do survive. These two are intact though the metal is quite soft. But we also found a twin .50 cal mount and after peeling off the concretions they are rock solid and look good as new!
Survived very well for steel in salt water
CarolineWYou should see the bait I was using.
Ah ok, so spade grips = free mounted. Thank you! I’ll start searching along those lines.
These are proving to be quite curious. Found in amongst a lot of US parts; PBY Cats and Liberators. I thought maybe Spitfire as I’ve found one fishtail Spitfire exhaust. But based on the history, there shouldn’t have been anything but PBYs here as it was specifically a Flying Boat Base! Hmmm.
I’ll have a look see if there are some markings on the front mount. They are very challenging! Survived intact but the metal is actually quite soft.
Thanks again 🙂
That was an interesting fishing trip, Caroline. The second has the spade grips attached which means it is a free mounted, rather than a wing or turret gun. It could be from the rear cockpit of of a Vengence type aircraft, or possibly a beam/side gun from something bigger: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~maav/vulteelightbox/vulteelightbox.html
There could be a part number on the front mount of the first gun, the mountings varied with aircraft types. They look a challenging clean!
CarolineWHiya flyingpencil; that’s an awesome image! 🙂
I’ve had a bit of a look to see if PBYs had Bendix turrets and I can’t find anything so far – the manuals I have for PBY4, 5 and 5a list the bow turret as being a Ryan Aeronautical Co. one. I’m starting to think this might not be Cat after all.
CarolineWAlways worth wasting just a little more time on google:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-Upper-Turret-Casting-B-25-Army-Air-Corps-8th-Air-Force-RARE-B-17-B-24-/251860250101?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa40a6df5&nma=true&si=55Yvt3smastYCzdalr9cFcpuuhc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
OH MY *******ING GOODNESS, IAN!!! THAT’S IT!!!
I cannot describe how happy you’ve made me – I’ve spent ages trying to figure this out and now you’ve solved it! That’s so wonderful!! And way more interesting. I’ve never seen an ammo feed like this.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!! 🙂
CarolineWHi ian,
I had no idea Bendix made gun turrets! No wonder I’ve been getting nowhere – I thought Bendix were mainly fuel and hydraulic bits and so that’s where I’ve been looking. I do like the sound of an ammunition feed; there were piles of .5 rounds in the area and we also pulled up four guns, including a .5 cal twin mount. I’ll take some measurements of it and get back to you. Thank you!
CarolineWI thought you were angry at me, powerandpassion – definitely not the other way around!
CarolineWHi Whitley_Project,
Ah ok, that makes sense (damn it!) 🙂 I haven’t tried WIX yet; I shall look into it. Thank you!
CarolineWHi windhover, that’s it exactly! Thank you! I thought it looked different to the usual Boeing stamps but didn’t realise Bendix had that distinct type B. You wouldn’t happen to know what a “W.S.P.V” stamp would be?(!) I’ve found that on a few Cat wing parts & can’t solve it. Thanks again!
CarolineWHi Flying Pencil,
This came from just out the front of the RAAF “Flying Boat Base” in East Arm, just next to the Z Force base and Lugger Maintenance Section. A new barge ramp is being built and so we’ve done some dive recovery of objects before construction starts. It’s mostly aluminium alloy, with the bracket etc., being essentially cast with an aluminium sheet wrapped round it. Thank you for your suggestions re. Dornier and Shorts; I hadn’t looked into either (I’m obsessed with PBYs and get a bit blinded). I shall do that now. Thank you!
CarolineWThat WDC stamp is very reminiscent of a Western Defence Command stamp I have seen somewhere… Can’t seem to refind it though.
Ooh, thank you! That sounds rather interesting indeed. I’ll see if I can track down anything.
Thanks again 🙂
CarolineWHi Mark,
Firstly, thank you very much for such an interesting and informative response. I really appreciate your time and the knowledge you’ve shared. And you’re making me think about all sorts of research avenues now 🙂
You’re right in that all the PBY wrecks have now been identified. These stamps do indeed come from what we’ve identified as dumped surplus parts – most were found in clumps or piles on the seabed, often in clusters of the same part type [e.g. we found one big mountain of exhaust collector assembly components] and several showing signs of intentional damage such as puncture marks, axe marks etc.
There’s a handful of unidentified parts that could definitely be Martin Mariner – I’ll have to look into that. We’ve also found a small number of Spitfire spares. However, the bulk are almost certainly PBY, showing the “28” prefix to part numbers.
Regarding Cat type, a small number of the parts are definitely at least PBY-5 or 5A based on part type or number, including a bug-eye bow turret, a brake pedal from a rudder control assembly, a hydraulic filter etc. And strangely enough, I found one elevator fragment that had a part number which the manuals state is only a PBY-6A number; although that’s very unlikely as you say and I’m not entirely convinced as I’ve found the numbering systems seem to have varied slightly in actual practise. Finally, there is definitely at least one complete section of leading edge from a PB2B, which very nicely still had a data plate on it! And Boeing stamps and a RCAF broad arrow stamp. Otherwise, the majority of parts could be either PBY 4 or PBY 5, or perhaps even 0A-10. I’ll have to look into that last one – I haven’t found any classic Vickers stamps so far [other than on one Spitfire bit], but I hadn’t really considered it for the Cats, thank you for that idea.
Those Boeing stamps have shown up a lot and I’ve found a very small amount of actual Consolidated stamps, which is leading me to think that most parts were Canadian contract built. I’m not sure if that’s a safe assumption?
At the end of the day, I think I probably won’t be able to work out where all these parts came from, were manufactured or used and / or by whom. It’d be great if I could, but I think I’d be very lucky to do so. At the moment I’m just trying to draw out as much possible information and interpretation as I can – but I’m fairly new to aircraft studies so the learning curve is quite steep!
I would love to find that treasure map to factory inspection stamps! Or manage to find an ex-inspector – that would be an absolute goldmine. I’ll see if I can get in touch with Consolidated / Convair – I would like to think that there just has to be some records / archives surviving somewhere….
Thanks again for all your help 🙂
Best wishes,
Caroline.
CarolineWMost of the round ones such as NBA2 and DOL14 seem to be individual inspector’s marks.
Hi eric, thank you.
I was wondering if that might be the case. I’ll mark those down and try to see if there’s any way of researching actual inspectors IDs [fingers crossed!].
Thank you 🙂
CarolineWThe ‘N’ stamp denotes that the part has ben Normalised, i.e. has been through a heat treatment cycle as part of the manufacturing process.
In the case of a complex sheet metal part temporally softened to allow it to be formed to shape, or after welding etc.
The N stamp is certainly as used by the UK aircraft industry, presume the U.S. did the same?..Though in their case Normalized!
Hi Chumpy,
Aha! Fantastic!! Thank you so much for that! That’s wonderful, I can now knock that one off my list!
Thank you 🙂
CarolineWTry taking a look at:
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/astamps.htm
Lots of American types listed.
Ah yes, that’s an awesome site. Thank you 🙂 Unfortunately I can’t find any of my mystery ones on there, the plot thickens….
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