Ask it on the WIX forum. maybe someone there will know.
Ok, will do – thank you for that suggestion 🙂
These may be sub contractor inspection stamps : it is hard to pursue this logic without understanding what the parts are, but it is reasonable to assume that large quantities of parts were manufactured and internally approved by large numbers of sub contractors, ranging in size from small family businesses to large concerns, then supplied to the final assembly plant. A good example of this are the Bendix wheels that feature on many US aircraft of the era, radially arranged around the spokes are cast in numbers and contractor inspection stamps for casting, heat treatment, machining and assembly.
Thousands of subcontractors were drawn into supplying the war machine and the documentation of these hurried arrangements is limited and opaque. Sometimes the abbreviations on the stamp can be readily matched with a company name. Somebody more familiar with the Catalina story may be able to make some connections with the abbreviations. Some of the stamps refer to overhaul records and maintenance workshops.
“$” is a great stamp. I think this was some toothless old mechanic in a shed somewhere in California who overhauled milking machines and the odd Navy aircraft fuel pump for the son in law quartermaster at the local base.
Hiya,
I think you’re right about subcontractors – I haven’t been able to match any of these stamps to either Consolidated or Boeing, or any other major aircraft manufacturer. None of them seem to match the subcontractors listed for various Cat parts though, so I am completely stumped.
I do like your interpretation of the $ stamp though! Sounds pretty spot on 🙂
Hi TonyT, sorry for the very slow response. Thank you very much for that link; that’s a great website! Thank you 🙂
Hi Mark,
Yes, absolutely 🙂 Ray Thorold-Smith’s aircraft was identified in the 1980s in the western reaches of Darwin Harbour; the area we’re working in is on the other side, along East Arm. That’s one of the main reason we’re here, to make sure no wreck sites are disturbed or damaged. The aircraft parts we’ve been finding in this particular area were all part of a discrete cluster of what look like spare parts discarded in a pile – many of them show puncture marks & axe marks from what seems to be a common practise of rendering parts useless prior to discard so they could be struck off the Lend Lease bill & to ensure they weren’t recovered and reused.
Hi Steve “P” and Whitley_Project,
Thank you very much for your replies. I’m glad to know I was actually on the right track!
Thanks again 🙂
Best wishes, Caroline.
Hi Ed,
I’m sorry I forgot to put in the bolt hole measurements in my last message.
The mounting flange is somewhat cracked & bent with only three bolt holes remaining intact or close to intact, so the measurements may not be 100% accurate I’m afraid. [and I measured in mm so please bear with me….] I got 11 mm for the diameter of the holes, pretty close to 15/32″; distance between holes on the short side was an estimate due to missing corners – I got ca. 100 mm / 3 15/16″; and the distance between holes on the long side was ca. 110 mm centre to centre of hole or ca. 99 mm edge to edge of hole, so kind of flanking the 4 1/16″ measurement.
I’m also not sure if it is a six bolt hole flange; the centre of one long side is severely cracked when the hole would’ve been but I’m not certain I can see evidence of said hole – were there 5 bolt hole flanges?
Thank you for looking for the Stromberg book. Dogs do have a habit of eating things like that I find! 🙂
Thanks again for your help 🙂
Hiya Ed,
Thank you so much for your response.
Based on your info and the Stromberg naming / numbering system, I’m reaching the tentative conclusion that my carb is a NA-L12. It’s definitely float & downdraft, and having barrels to one side of float chamber – which in my understanding, now that I can definitely rule out “Y”, leaves only the “L” series as a possibility [?]. The 12 size seems to fit, if I’m calculating correctly…. the barrel opening is 3 3/4″ and the throat is 3 1/8″ [as best as I can measure it] – does that sound right based on the SAE standards?
I’m still completely lost re. what type of engine it may have been fitted to; the 12 size seems to match engines of the Twin Wasp size, but this carb looks like it would be for something of a lot less horsepower. I’d been toying with the idea that it was an earlier version carb for a Pratt & Whitney [i.e. before the pressure carbs came in] – but that’s just my latest wild guess and perhaps that can be ruled out now as you say that almost all Wasps used the Y. Hmm.
Thanks again for all your help 🙂
Hi ericmunk, thank you – that’s sounding very promising. Especially so as now I’ve found several records of Lockheed Hudsons crashing or being wrecked up here during the War.
Thank you 🙂
Daniel Craig,
Ha ha, thank you! 🙂
It’s very interesting you should say that. I do indeed find that the most intriguing part of my job is finding the story behind the artefacts; the how and why they got there and what they can actually tell us; the “so what” part.
And I would really like to see a miffed Paraolympian running down Putin and giving him a damn good flogging. It really is beyond time someone did do something.
I do like the idea of The Carby Has Risen, and for a reason 🙂 Though I think I shall be stuck up here for a while yet, I certainly do like the idea of taking some time out to do some interesting aviation arch projects down there. Honestly, do please contact me [crwilby@hotmail.com] if you have any thoughts of how I could contribute.
🙂
Hiya Bager1968, thank you for your reply. That definitely sounds like a good possibility looking into aircraft fleeing the Japanese invasion and moving south; three of the USN Cats that were wrecked here actually ended up in Darwin Harbour for that very reason! I’ll see what I can find. The earlier dates you mention re. the Douglas 0-46 also sound interesting – I have a feeling this carb might have been an early version component.
Thanks again for your help 🙂
Hi Avro Avian, thank you. I hadn’t even heard of the R-1690 Hornet. Definitely sounds like a good candidate – I’ll see what I can hunt down on them. Would be neat if that one were still hanging in that workshop! 🙂
Hi ericmunk, thanks so much for your reply.
Awesome – I’m looking through records of NT crashes at the moment so I’ll keep a look out for any Douglas O-46.
Thanks heaps 🙂
Daniel Craig,
I’m sorry for my long delay in responding – I’ve been out in field and away from internet access.
Thank you so very much for all your time and for looking into this further. That’s awesome information!
After your response the other day I started tracking down records of crashes in the NT and now comparing that with your identification of PD9 carb and corresponding engine capacities, I’ve found one land crash so far that had a P&W Junior Wasp – but it was an R-985 [Lockheed 12 / C-40]. Nothing on any Vindicators yet, but I certainly feel its getting closer and I’ve still got records to look through. You’re right in that there were so many crashes up here – nice range to chose from! I’ve also only been looking at WWII crashes at the moment, so I’ll push it back further and see if there were any earlier in the 30s. Thank you so much – it’s great to have something to anchor the research on.
And thank you again for your wonderful insights into the likely crashing event sequence with regards to the melting & corrosion of the aluminium, and dumping activities. I can’t describe how helpful that is. Whilst some aircraft parts we’ve found were in discrete piles, several others were scattered amongst ferrous debris – luckily for us as that was one of the main reasons we actually found a lot of the aircraft material. So the signs of rust suggesting proximity to other discarded objects that you identified on this carb certainly corresponds to the latter pattern and really helps with interpretation.
The wade out to the Cats really is rather nasty [!] and a pub visit is pretty much obligatory afterwards I believe 🙂 Perhaps even before and after…!
I do miss decent coffee. And I seriously would love to be involved in searches for wrecks in Port Philip. I’ve been doing archaeology for years but only working on aircraft maritime wrecks for the last two years – so I don’t know how much I’d be able to contribute and as you know, my knowledge is quite limited – but this project has turned me into a bit of an aircraft nerd so I am definitely interested! 🙂
Thanks again so much for all your help 🙂
Daniel Craig,
Damn! I could use you in the field up here!
I noticed the melting and thought it was in a position where carbs usually burn, but I don’t know anywhere near enough to get so much information & insight out of it as you have. That’s amazing. Thank you so much. I have to ask – do you think there’s any way that such damage / burning could have occurred with an aircraft crash at sea? One of the biggest questions [other than what the hell is it], is determining whether it could be part of an in situ site or just part of the scatter of post-war discarded debris. Though the only recorded missing wrecks in the harbour are the Kittyhawk and a A6M Zero, you never know.
I’ll start chasing up records of what aircraft were in use at the airbases up here and whether there were recorded crashes. Thank you very much for that suggestion 🙂
So you’ve experienced the wonderful Darwin mud? I’ve had to do that awful wade out to Cat 1 too! When were you last up here looking at Cats? The 6th missing one [USN] was finally found up here a couple of years ago and from what I’ve seen its in almost perfect condition.
The problem with the site where the carb was found is that it is in the middle of an area of sand waves; we’ve done magnetometer and gradiometer searches across the area a few times but with not a lot of success. This carb was a chance find that just popped up and getting access back out there is tricky – we’re doing all this as clearance work in association with the dredging for new shipping channels – so very tight timetables and access restrictions.
I’m actually from Melbourne – though I haven’t had a chance to dive down there yet & working on some unsurveyed aircraft wrecks sounds awesome! Think I’ll be wearing a cardy too though when I do get back down there; especially after spending so much time up here….
Thanks again for all your help 🙂
Possible further info –
I found two illustrations of a carb that seems to match the same overall shape / design – in a US War Department Technical Manual [1944] “Aircraft Induction, Fuel & Oil Systems.” Unfortunately there’s no description of the carb make or model – they are just used as examples for certain carb types. Don’t know if these provide any clues?
Thanks again everyone 🙂
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