How did this topic get so off topic? We were discussing underground airbases.

Let’s put an argument to allied force once and for all. I have researched this topic so I think that I know enough about it and here are the facts:

Two planes were shot down by the Serbs: 1 F-117, and 1 F-16. If any more planes were shot down there is no proof so there is no point in mentioning it. By Nato’s own admission, about 10-15 more planes were damaged by various types of missiles but not good enough to be brought down. Nato also admitted that a small number of UAV’s were also shot down (about 30), and these were videotaped and falsely claimed by Venik to be planes. No lives were lost. 2 AH-64 helicopters went down, but were probably not shot down by the Serbs. Serbian claims of hundreds of shot down planes was nothing more than propaganda put out by the Milosevic government, although from what I can tell this propaganda was aimed only at the Serbian population, it was never intended to convince anyone outside of Serbia, so I don’t see what you guys are so upset about. It is standard practice during wartime to motivate your population by exagerrating your successes while hiding your losses.

As for the Serbs losses they lost 11 Mig-29’s (of which about half were not flyable anyways), and a similar number of Mig-21’s and G-4’s. They lost about 13 tanks and a few more APC’s and trucks and such. They also lost a good number of stationary targets of their integrated air defense network. Like the Serbs, Nato also exagerrated their kills, claiming hundreds of tanks and such.

There… Now there is nothing more that anyone could possibly add to this story because I covered absolutely everything, so there is no reason to continue the argument. Are we agreed?

Which one is the Mig-23? I count 6 Mig-21’s, 16 J-22’s, 29 G-2’s (or J-21’s, is it possible to tell the difference)? Also, which Iraqi planes were brought to Yugoslavia? Mig-23, and what else? Mig-25 maybe?

What are the chances that Israel will design their own plane again in the future?

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Russia to not buy any Su-27’s and instead save all the money they have so that they can buy more PAK-FA’s when they’re ready? Their current fleet of 3rd gen fighters should be good enough until then.

I do not know anything about a law change in 2004. Ontario’s licencing laws and policies were completely revised only in 1994, so I don’t see why they would implement anything new so soon.

I live in Ontario and here is what it says in my The Official Driver’s Handbook which I bought a few years ago when I was getting my licence:

If you are a new resident of Ontario and have a valid driver’s licence from another province or country, you can use that licence for 60 days in Ontario. If you want to continue to drive after 60 days, you must get an Ontario driver’s licence.

If you are a licensed driver from a country other than Canada, USA, or Japan, you must meet the Ontario driver medical requirements, pass a vision test and a test of your knowledge of the rules of the road and traffic signs. If you have acceptable proof of two or more years of driving experience, you may take the Level Two road test to earn full driving privileges. If you do not pass this road test, you will get a Level One (car or motorcycle) licence and may immediately schedule a Level One road test. A driver’s licence from another area is considered acceptable proof if it shows you have the driving experience required. If it does not, you will need to show documents that do. If you do not have acceptable proof of your driving experience, you will start at the beginning of Level One as a new driver.

To sum it up, you do not have to take the written test, or the Level One road test, you go straight to the Level Two test, and if you pass it you get a real licence.

I would recommend you schedule your road test as soon as possible because when I went they were booked about 3 months in advance.

The fact is that nothing no matter how advanced can match sheer quantity. I would buy about 2000 of a cheap fighter jet, possibly the BVR-capable version of the F-7, whatever it’s called. They only cost around $5 million each. They have BVR, with HMS they are good dogfighters, and they carry PGM’s.